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hey

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[Music]

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blast off on another epic episode of the

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hyper anomalous esoteric research

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organization podcast

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hero paranormal we are broadcasting from

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space wolf research base camp just south

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of the utah ufo ranch in the uintah

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basin of utah

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my name is ryan

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the anomalous ambassador of the airwaves

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bringing you an epic episode today

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today we have none other than jason

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gleaves coming to us from the uk

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he worked at the royal air force but you

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all probably know him from ufo only

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jason is a master of his craft and has

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done some amazing ufo work for space

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wolf research

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he has really cleaned up and looked at

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some of the anomalous uaps we've

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gathered on camera and does an excellent

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job of this

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he is also an author and we are going to

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talk about

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the incredible new book ufo encounters

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up close and personal

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it's available to buy from

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amazon of course

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and

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it is great to see the narrative start

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to change

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it's going to be a great conversation

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with jason gleaves

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i should also mention that broadcasting

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from space wolf research in the heart of

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the uintah basin it's great broadcasting

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from the base camp but it doesn't come

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without its problems

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we had an

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horrible horrible connection earlier

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our internet went down

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and it is classic high strangeness at

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its finest

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jason was a god amongst men

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very cordial very understanding and he

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waited for the internet to be put back

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into place

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we can't thank him enough but that's

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just how jason is

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he's a great great author but more

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importantly a great human being

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and as i said

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just a master of his craft he's helped

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us clean up images of strange craft we

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have caught on the cameras here at space

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wolf research

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which is again located just south of the

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utah ufo ranch which has been made very

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famous

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by popular tv shows and of course

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is well known as being the old ranch

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that bigelow used to own

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a lot took place at that ranch and i

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think we're going to

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get into some of the science um possibly

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behind what is going on not only in the

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uintah basin as far as uaps and ufos but

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worldwide

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having worked for the raf jason has

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a lot of experience with this

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and ufo encounters this is uh going to

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be

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great talking to jason he has paranormal

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experience as well

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and this new book by jason gleaves ufo

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encounters up close and personal is

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going to be a wild ride

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it is going to be an epic podcast and if

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you want more epic podcasts there is a

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ton of content behind the paywall

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at

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a ton of content there

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at patreon

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hero paranormal so if you go to patreon

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just look up hero paranormal and you can

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also support us there it's your support

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that helps the podcast keep going so we

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don't have to delve so deeply out of

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pocket

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the book we will be discussing ufo

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encounters up close and personal by

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jason gleaves

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is fully illustrated it delves into ufo

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cases both known and unknown which grip

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the curiosity of many ufologists authors

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researchers and experiencers worldwide

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within our field and it tugged their

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interest in fascination

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often screaming and shouting into the

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realms of high strangeness in the

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unexplained they explain in detail

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either the ufo case the sighting or

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experience that started them off on

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their own

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ufo journey

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contributions have come from ufo

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researchers authors and experiencers

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from around the world including dr bruce

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mcabee

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don schmidt peter robbins philip mantle

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mike cavell kathleen martin stan ho

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rebecca lomas

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mark ali nigel watson osvaldo carrigi

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and many more the editor of this book is

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uk author and researcher jason gleaves

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who of course adds his own contribution

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and as i said just one of the nicest

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guys around

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jason has had this to say about the book

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i would like to personally thank

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everyone who has taken the time to

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contribute within our field and

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community with their personal

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experiences and stories you have all had

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a huge part to play in my own personal

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journey teaching me so much and helping

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me along the way this is going to be an

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absolute riot with jason can't wait to

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talk to him and uh jason welcome to the

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hero paranormal podcast

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all right you're right

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we got there in the end

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great to have you man it is and thank

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you for you're a god amongst men uh

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dealing with this issue that we've had

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we had our internet go down for about

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three hours

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and

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it is nightmare yes very much a

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nightmare it is one of those things that

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even though it's nice to broadcast from

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the base camp here at space wolf

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research it comes with its high

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strangeness from time to time

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yeah yeah i know that but you know for

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sure they get it all the time when i'm

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doing the podcast

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and in the introduction i mentioned to

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our guests that you've gone through and

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helped space wolf research in the past

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to clear up

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ufo images we've caught here on the

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property amongst other things but um

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you're just overall very helpful but

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that's not why we're here we're here to

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discuss your new book um and

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it's got a lot going on you uh

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what what made you write this new book

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and

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speak with so many researchers

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investigators and experiencers

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well it's basically what you just said

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though

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it was the third book i wrote and the

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other two the first one obviously the

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ufo photo was the analyzing of

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photographs that i built for people all

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over the world

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and then the second was a much deeper

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look into ufology

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the you've helped you ufology umbrella

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it's called um and that's really

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basically where i look into the seven

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separate categories of close encounters

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because most people only think there's

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only one two and three third being

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the famous

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spielberg movie close encounters of

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third kind

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um and i'll break basically break it

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down in that respect and then this book

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um the new book the ufo photo

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ufo encounters up close and personal

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is like we said it i i wanted to know

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um of ufologists and fellow researchers

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and you know everybody who is involved

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within the

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community as a whole

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and how they actually got into ufology

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you know what was the actual pull what

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what pulled them in

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to uh you know

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to look at ufos and all the high

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strangeness that comes with it

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yes and um the list of people that you

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included is pretty significant

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um

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it's uh

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it

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i also wanted to ask you

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if when you worked for the royal air

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force if you ever came across any ufo

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type situations there

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it's um i i did they actually come

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across there's a couple of incidents but

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the one the the most famous

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incident that's um recalled is the

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the raf cosford incident which is in

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march 1993.

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there was a base called raf crosswood in

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um

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near birmingham

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middle central england

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um and

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basically this was um a sighting on this

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was a training camp so they got a lot of

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young trainees there where they train

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them in different disciplines before

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they go off into the the bigger world in

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the air force itself

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and um

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the gate guard on the airfield on the

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time was only a young airman

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um

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who was actually put on there part of

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his duties was a gate guard post

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um and this was early hours in the

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morning i had a friend good friend who

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was the orderly corporal in the gold in

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the guard room

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and um

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early late evening on march

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the um the radio just kicked into life

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um i was just poor lad on on the the

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radio screaming down the radio to get

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the guard commander out to the airfield

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because something was hovering over the

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airfield which was right next to the

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where his post was right next to near

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the road where the runway was

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and um

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so the guard commander and the guard

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force uh the rf police and everybody got

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in their land rovers and sherpas vans

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etc and all made their way to the

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airfield didn't know what they were

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gonna expect to see when they got there

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when they did get there this um

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they all saw for themselves there was a

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huge triangle shaped craft hovering over

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the uh

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the runway itself were quite low down

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and it was like jet black in color the

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odd lights on the corners you know your

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typical um

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triangle shaped craft

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and um they'll witness this this object

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it was described to be the size of a

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battleship it was that huge in size

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and um it took off at high velocity

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and they obviously made all their

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reports etc from their own but it didn't

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end there because it went on to another

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nearby raf base at raf shoreberry which

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is about 20 miles away the cur the crow

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flies

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um and the on duty air traffic control

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at the time

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actually you've got to lock onto this

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craft

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it was not long after the cotswood

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sighting and um

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you know it had been throughout seen

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throughout the uk by other people

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or craft of similar description um by on

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duty policemen and members of the public

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but um this on duty air traffic control

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at raf shorebree saw the craft come in

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and he said it was but it was firing

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pencil thin lasers down towards the

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ground as if it the impression he got or

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it was if it was looking for something

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um so that was basically you know

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the big one there

286
00:12:10,790 --> 00:12:09,040
um

287
00:12:12,870 --> 00:12:10,800
what else did you want to know

288
00:12:15,990 --> 00:12:12,880
yeah i want to delve into

289
00:12:18,069 --> 00:12:16,000
um a few things and first i want to just

290
00:12:20,069 --> 00:12:18,079
point out that you have a high expertise

291
00:12:21,750 --> 00:12:20,079
and modern civilian and military

292
00:12:23,910 --> 00:12:21,760
worldwide aircraft

293
00:12:27,030 --> 00:12:23,920
and armaments recognition there have

294
00:12:29,269 --> 00:12:27,040
been some interesting photos coming out

295
00:12:31,350 --> 00:12:29,279
as of late some where people claim it

296
00:12:34,710 --> 00:12:31,360
may just be rocks in

297
00:12:36,310 --> 00:12:34,720
ponds for lack of a better word have you

298
00:12:39,350 --> 00:12:36,320
have you had a chance to look at what

299
00:12:41,350 --> 00:12:39,360
i'm talking about

300
00:12:42,949 --> 00:12:41,360
i'm not sure is this something you've

301
00:12:43,990 --> 00:12:42,959
sent me or

302
00:12:48,470 --> 00:12:44,000
this is

303
00:12:50,870 --> 00:12:48,480
that oh yeah

304
00:12:52,389 --> 00:12:50,880
yeah you're talking of the the calvine

305
00:12:58,710 --> 00:12:52,399
um

306
00:12:59,990 --> 00:12:58,720
in the seventies i think it was a first

307
00:13:02,629 --> 00:13:00,000
scene

308
00:13:06,069 --> 00:13:02,639
well this is the famous ufo case that

309
00:13:08,629 --> 00:13:06,079
everyone's been trying to track down um

310
00:13:10,069 --> 00:13:08,639
we've got the ufologists in the uk here

311
00:13:13,750 --> 00:13:10,079
who actually

312
00:13:15,590 --> 00:13:13,760
mr clark himself um very distinguished

313
00:13:19,030 --> 00:13:15,600
uh researcher

314
00:13:20,870 --> 00:13:19,040
um who's a track down the the actual one

315
00:13:24,710 --> 00:13:20,880
last photograph

316
00:13:26,790 --> 00:13:24,720
to a scottish newspaper and an ex-air

317
00:13:29,430 --> 00:13:26,800
force officer

318
00:13:31,990 --> 00:13:29,440
and this was the famous

319
00:13:34,389 --> 00:13:32,000
ufo photograph that was supposed to be

320
00:13:36,949 --> 00:13:34,399
pinned to the back of the door at the

321
00:13:38,629 --> 00:13:36,959
ministry of defense in whitehall

322
00:13:40,790 --> 00:13:38,639
um and it was always said to be the

323
00:13:42,629 --> 00:13:40,800
famous ufo photograph you know there

324
00:13:46,389 --> 00:13:42,639
that everyone had seen

325
00:13:48,550 --> 00:13:46,399
the thing about it they they've kept it

326
00:13:50,710 --> 00:13:48,560
hush for a long time you know they've

327
00:13:52,949 --> 00:13:50,720
tried to keep it under wraps

328
00:13:55,509 --> 00:13:52,959
they've actually keep well they kept the

329
00:13:57,590 --> 00:13:55,519
um identity of the two

330
00:13:59,670 --> 00:13:57,600
chefs there's two young chefs who

331
00:14:01,750 --> 00:13:59,680
actually took the photograph

332
00:14:04,110 --> 00:14:01,760
they've tried to keep the identity of

333
00:14:06,470 --> 00:14:04,120
them secret until

334
00:14:07,350 --> 00:14:06,480
2072 i think it is

335
00:14:08,710 --> 00:14:07,360
and

336
00:14:10,629 --> 00:14:08,720
so

337
00:14:13,030 --> 00:14:10,639
they're trying to keep it very hush for

338
00:14:15,110 --> 00:14:13,040
a reason uh which we can't seem to

339
00:14:17,189 --> 00:14:15,120
understand

340
00:14:19,829 --> 00:14:17,199
nowadays you know the way the the way

341
00:14:20,790 --> 00:14:19,839
ufology is nowadays

342
00:14:22,710 --> 00:14:20,800
um

343
00:14:25,509 --> 00:14:22,720
so yeah that's a pretty famous

344
00:14:27,910 --> 00:14:25,519
photograph and i actually had a look at

345
00:14:29,430 --> 00:14:27,920
the best image i could get hold of to

346
00:14:32,069 --> 00:14:29,440
analyze um

347
00:14:36,310 --> 00:14:32,079
you know it's a pretty huge craft that's

348
00:14:39,350 --> 00:14:36,320
there and you've got um an ref uh jaguar

349
00:14:41,750 --> 00:14:39,360
a general jaguar a harrier jump jet

350
00:14:44,710 --> 00:14:41,760
which is uh which based in one of the

351
00:14:47,590 --> 00:14:44,720
bases at scotland at the time who was

352
00:14:49,269 --> 00:14:47,600
obviously scrambled or with this craft

353
00:14:51,030 --> 00:14:49,279
and they were taken

354
00:14:53,350 --> 00:14:51,040
i think there was apparently six

355
00:14:56,069 --> 00:14:53,360
photographs taken but they've all

356
00:14:59,110 --> 00:14:56,079
disappeared other than this one so it's

357
00:15:00,550 --> 00:14:59,120
it's kicking up quite stare within the

358
00:15:03,670 --> 00:15:00,560
community

359
00:15:05,590 --> 00:15:03,680
it really has i've i've heard so many

360
00:15:08,629 --> 00:15:05,600
arguments on both sides and this is

361
00:15:10,710 --> 00:15:08,639
typical with uh in the ufo field

362
00:15:12,389 --> 00:15:10,720
something interesting is that i believe

363
00:15:14,629 --> 00:15:12,399
it was originally a black and white

364
00:15:16,069 --> 00:15:14,639
photograph but yet i heard nick pope

365
00:15:18,790 --> 00:15:16,079
claims to have a

366
00:15:20,069 --> 00:15:18,800
full-size color photograph of it there's

367
00:15:24,710 --> 00:15:20,079
very

368
00:15:27,189 --> 00:15:24,720
when it comes to this particular case

369
00:15:30,470 --> 00:15:27,199
but jumping off of this

370
00:15:32,230 --> 00:15:30,480
um i want to kind of ask you about one

371
00:15:34,949 --> 00:15:32,240
of your favorite cases if not your

372
00:15:37,189 --> 00:15:34,959
favorite case jason which is the real

373
00:15:38,870 --> 00:15:37,199
war of the worlds ufo encounter can we

374
00:15:40,470 --> 00:15:38,880
discuss that and that that's in your

375
00:15:43,189 --> 00:15:40,480
book as well

376
00:15:45,590 --> 00:15:43,199
yeah that was just um obviously i had to

377
00:15:47,110 --> 00:15:45,600
put myself in there and you know on one

378
00:15:49,430 --> 00:15:47,120
of the cases

379
00:15:51,269 --> 00:15:49,440
out of many i i've got to say i could

380
00:15:53,269 --> 00:15:51,279
have put quite a lot of different cases

381
00:15:56,310 --> 00:15:53,279
in the book but this is just one of you

382
00:15:58,389 --> 00:15:56,320
know a quite memorable one for me and i

383
00:16:02,470 --> 00:15:58,399
call it the real war of the worlds but

384
00:16:05,030 --> 00:16:02,480
um it was basically in august of 1972

385
00:16:08,470 --> 00:16:05,040
there was two university students about

386
00:16:10,710 --> 00:16:08,480
19 years old at the time in japan and

387
00:16:12,550 --> 00:16:10,720
they were taking photographs like they

388
00:16:15,110 --> 00:16:12,560
do scenery and there was an active

389
00:16:17,350 --> 00:16:15,120
volcano nearby in uh

390
00:16:19,030 --> 00:16:17,360
[\h__\h] coconut or coconut whatever

391
00:16:20,550 --> 00:16:19,040
pronounce it don't forgive me for that

392
00:16:21,590 --> 00:16:20,560
if they've got it wrong

393
00:16:23,030 --> 00:16:21,600
and

394
00:16:25,189 --> 00:16:23,040
again there were six separate

395
00:16:27,030 --> 00:16:25,199
photographs produced with this which

396
00:16:29,829 --> 00:16:27,040
really got my attention

397
00:16:32,069 --> 00:16:29,839
um and i analyzed them went into great

398
00:16:34,069 --> 00:16:32,079
detail you know blew them up

399
00:16:37,350 --> 00:16:34,079
and then you know the very good quality

400
00:16:39,030 --> 00:16:37,360
the old 35 millimeter images so that you

401
00:16:41,030 --> 00:16:39,040
know you can generally look more

402
00:16:43,749 --> 00:16:41,040
authentic you know the harder to you

403
00:16:45,910 --> 00:16:43,759
know fake that type of thing

404
00:16:47,910 --> 00:16:45,920
and um

405
00:16:50,870 --> 00:16:47,920
yeah it really gripped me because they

406
00:16:53,189 --> 00:16:50,880
actually look like the craft you know on

407
00:16:54,310 --> 00:16:53,199
on that movie the the war of the worlds

408
00:16:59,269 --> 00:16:54,320
um

409
00:17:01,749 --> 00:16:59,279
that was the impression so that's why i

410
00:17:03,670 --> 00:17:01,759
called it that really but um you know

411
00:17:05,990 --> 00:17:03,680
this this object was

412
00:17:08,870 --> 00:17:06,000
maneuvering itself erratically around

413
00:17:11,029 --> 00:17:08,880
the at the active volcano below you know

414
00:17:13,189 --> 00:17:11,039
you can see actual smoke and plumes

415
00:17:16,710 --> 00:17:13,199
coming up from the volcano and it's

416
00:17:19,590 --> 00:17:16,720
firing again this craft is firing laser

417
00:17:21,429 --> 00:17:19,600
thin shards of light down into the uh

418
00:17:22,470 --> 00:17:21,439
volcano itself so

419
00:17:24,630 --> 00:17:22,480
that was

420
00:17:27,189 --> 00:17:24,640
just one case that you know i actually

421
00:17:29,350 --> 00:17:27,199
put forward to get the book rolling and

422
00:17:31,669 --> 00:17:29,360
then starting into i'd see all the other

423
00:17:34,150 --> 00:17:31,679
people who've been generous and giving

424
00:17:36,630 --> 00:17:34,160
me their cases to put in the book

425
00:17:38,789 --> 00:17:36,640
and just to point out for those

426
00:17:40,710 --> 00:17:38,799
listeners that are on the fence they

427
00:17:42,310 --> 00:17:40,720
should definitely buy the book because

428
00:17:45,430 --> 00:17:42,320
the images

429
00:17:47,190 --> 00:17:45,440
that of this object emitting rays and

430
00:17:49,990 --> 00:17:47,200
beams of light

431
00:17:53,270 --> 00:17:50,000
it's fascinating and it like you said

432
00:17:55,669 --> 00:17:53,280
it's it's hovering uh in a place where

433
00:17:57,270 --> 00:17:55,679
standard aircraft just can't

434
00:18:01,190 --> 00:17:57,280
can't pull it off i mean they would

435
00:18:03,350 --> 00:18:01,200
literally be molten in the fire um yeah

436
00:18:04,870 --> 00:18:03,360
moving on to a case that i found

437
00:18:07,990 --> 00:18:04,880
fascinating and

438
00:18:11,110 --> 00:18:08,000
it's you know usually people go right to

439
00:18:14,310 --> 00:18:11,120
uh roswell or rendell shum but this

440
00:18:15,350 --> 00:18:14,320
particular case is uh neither of those

441
00:18:20,630 --> 00:18:15,360
and

442
00:18:22,470 --> 00:18:20,640
normanton

443
00:18:25,110 --> 00:18:22,480
yeah that was um

444
00:18:25,990 --> 00:18:25,120
i could be right that was philadelphia's

445
00:18:27,830 --> 00:18:26,000
actually

446
00:18:29,830 --> 00:18:27,840
case he put forward

447
00:18:32,630 --> 00:18:29,840
again phillip could have put plenty of

448
00:18:34,630 --> 00:18:32,640
cases again he's very experienced

449
00:18:35,830 --> 00:18:34,640
guy you know i really you know he's

450
00:18:37,190 --> 00:18:35,840
mentored me

451
00:18:39,430 --> 00:18:37,200
through a lot of things and new

452
00:18:41,990 --> 00:18:39,440
apologies i'd come in but again you said

453
00:18:44,310 --> 00:18:42,000
it was a mrs westerman and again the

454
00:18:45,909 --> 00:18:44,320
eight-year-old daughter you know ran

455
00:18:47,029 --> 00:18:45,919
into the house

456
00:18:49,190 --> 00:18:47,039
you know

457
00:18:51,830 --> 00:18:49,200
saying she'd just seen uh an aircraft

458
00:18:53,990 --> 00:18:51,840
come down in the local field

459
00:18:56,950 --> 00:18:54,000
um and obviously they went out and long

460
00:18:59,909 --> 00:18:56,960
story short this uh this was a craft

461
00:19:02,950 --> 00:18:59,919
that latte landed in in a field next to

462
00:19:04,870 --> 00:19:02,960
some pylons you know electrical pylons

463
00:19:05,669 --> 00:19:04,880
and it was basically a

464
00:19:23,190 --> 00:19:05,679
a

465
00:19:26,710 --> 00:19:23,200
mrs

466
00:19:27,990 --> 00:19:26,720
westerman and i got all the details um

467
00:19:30,950 --> 00:19:28,000
and again

468
00:19:33,270 --> 00:19:30,960
this was during 1980 so it was you know

469
00:19:34,710 --> 00:19:33,280
around the time of uh wren wilson

470
00:19:36,230 --> 00:19:34,720
forrest and

471
00:19:37,270 --> 00:19:36,240
sightings like that you know that

472
00:19:39,270 --> 00:19:37,280
happened

473
00:19:41,350 --> 00:19:39,280
so yeah that was a really really good

474
00:19:43,830 --> 00:19:41,360
case uh philip had put forward but he

475
00:19:45,909 --> 00:19:43,840
you know sort of dragged him into

476
00:19:48,390 --> 00:19:45,919
ufology

477
00:19:50,789 --> 00:19:48,400
really is an interesting one and

478
00:19:53,029 --> 00:19:50,799
something i want to touch on and some of

479
00:19:55,190 --> 00:19:53,039
these events is

480
00:19:58,150 --> 00:19:55,200
the interesting

481
00:20:02,070 --> 00:19:58,160
greater reality that we are not alone

482
00:20:04,630 --> 00:20:02,080
and um the peter maxwell slattery

483
00:20:09,029 --> 00:20:04,640
uh portion of your book uh goes into

484
00:20:10,549 --> 00:20:09,039
some very interesting et contact

485
00:20:11,750 --> 00:20:10,559
and how

486
00:20:14,390 --> 00:20:11,760
some of these

487
00:20:17,510 --> 00:20:14,400
well extraterrestrials have

488
00:20:19,669 --> 00:20:17,520
led him to help people and uh kind of

489
00:20:21,590 --> 00:20:19,679
tapping into their own abilities is this

490
00:20:25,190 --> 00:20:21,600
something that you've come across

491
00:20:26,630 --> 00:20:25,200
with uh in your research

492
00:20:28,870 --> 00:20:26,640
yeah um

493
00:20:31,029 --> 00:20:28,880
plenty of people you know they find

494
00:20:32,870 --> 00:20:31,039
themselves when they're actually pulled

495
00:20:36,470 --> 00:20:32,880
into it i mean i've mentioned this

496
00:20:38,549 --> 00:20:36,480
before um i i call it the richard drafer

497
00:20:40,630 --> 00:20:38,559
syndrome you know the character of close

498
00:20:43,110 --> 00:20:40,640
encounters of the third kind

499
00:20:45,270 --> 00:20:43,120
um if anyone i'm sure you listens i've

500
00:20:48,630 --> 00:20:45,280
seen that movie is one of my favorites

501
00:20:50,390 --> 00:20:48,640
um and again the character you know

502
00:20:53,909 --> 00:20:50,400
throughout that film when he has an

503
00:20:55,669 --> 00:20:53,919
interaction with the ufo um you know

504
00:20:57,830 --> 00:20:55,679
all he wants to do is get more

505
00:21:00,549 --> 00:20:57,840
information on you know what's what's

506
00:21:02,549 --> 00:21:00,559
dragging him to devil's tower and

507
00:21:05,830 --> 00:21:02,559
all that type of thing in relation with

508
00:21:06,630 --> 00:21:05,840
et's and ufos and you know the same

509
00:21:08,549 --> 00:21:06,640
thing

510
00:21:11,110 --> 00:21:08,559
basically happens with most people you

511
00:21:12,070 --> 00:21:11,120
know they end up getting themselves on a

512
00:21:13,750 --> 00:21:12,080
journey

513
00:21:16,310 --> 00:21:13,760
you know and they need to find out they

514
00:21:18,390 --> 00:21:16,320
need to watch more and more youtube

515
00:21:20,870 --> 00:21:18,400
videos you know you can't get enough you

516
00:21:22,950 --> 00:21:20,880
can't read enough you can't watch enough

517
00:21:25,430 --> 00:21:22,960
in our programs you can't listen to

518
00:21:28,830 --> 00:21:25,440
enough people giving talks and speeches

519
00:21:31,909 --> 00:21:28,840
on on ufos and anything related hi

520
00:21:34,470 --> 00:21:31,919
strangeness um and you know peter has

521
00:21:37,990 --> 00:21:34,480
become really good friends you know i i

522
00:21:40,950 --> 00:21:38,000
first came across peter slattery um who

523
00:21:43,510 --> 00:21:40,960
lives in australia in victoria and i

524
00:21:46,230 --> 00:21:43,520
first came through you know introduced

525
00:21:48,390 --> 00:21:46,240
to him really was through mary rodwell

526
00:21:51,350 --> 00:21:48,400
um because obviously she was giving him

527
00:21:52,870 --> 00:21:51,360
um hypnosis after he's had interactions

528
00:21:55,110 --> 00:21:52,880
and sightings

529
00:21:56,470 --> 00:21:55,120
you know and i do put peter in probably

530
00:21:59,350 --> 00:21:56,480
the top 1

531
00:22:02,390 --> 00:21:59,360
in the world of people having contact

532
00:22:05,510 --> 00:22:02,400
and sightings of craft and he's he's

533
00:22:07,669 --> 00:22:05,520
actually videoed and

534
00:22:09,029 --> 00:22:07,679
photographed so many different types of

535
00:22:11,909 --> 00:22:09,039
craft you know

536
00:22:14,549 --> 00:22:11,919
mainly the ones lately have been orbs

537
00:22:16,870 --> 00:22:14,559
and you know bright illuminated objects

538
00:22:19,510 --> 00:22:16,880
but you know he's actually photographed

539
00:22:22,630 --> 00:22:19,520
you know structured discs and

540
00:22:24,630 --> 00:22:22,640
unusual shapecraft but not only craft

541
00:22:26,630 --> 00:22:24,640
does he you know take

542
00:22:29,029 --> 00:22:26,640
images and footage of

543
00:22:32,230 --> 00:22:29,039
you know he's actually captured

544
00:22:34,390 --> 00:22:32,240
extraterrestrials beings in his house so

545
00:22:36,149 --> 00:22:34,400
he's set up

546
00:22:38,390 --> 00:22:36,159
motion cameras in his living room

547
00:22:40,230 --> 00:22:38,400
because he's seen them before

548
00:22:42,390 --> 00:22:40,240
and i still laugh with peter because i'm

549
00:22:44,789 --> 00:22:42,400
sure he goes to bed with his camera you

550
00:22:47,270 --> 00:22:44,799
know he's always got his camera ready

551
00:22:48,630 --> 00:22:47,280
because he knows something is strange is

552
00:22:50,789 --> 00:22:48,640
gonna happen

553
00:22:53,430 --> 00:22:50,799
and this time when he he set up the

554
00:22:55,390 --> 00:22:53,440
motion camera within the house

555
00:22:58,950 --> 00:22:55,400
if you go onto his uh

556
00:23:00,789 --> 00:22:58,960
esetti.org um web pages and everything

557
00:23:03,029 --> 00:23:00,799
you can see a lot of the footage and

558
00:23:06,630 --> 00:23:03,039
imagery that i've actually analyzed for

559
00:23:09,190 --> 00:23:06,640
peter but this one shows the grey tea

560
00:23:11,430 --> 00:23:09,200
which pops his head around the corner

561
00:23:13,270 --> 00:23:11,440
um as he's in his living room and the

562
00:23:14,789 --> 00:23:13,280
camera is facing forwards from where

563
00:23:17,350 --> 00:23:14,799
he's sitting

564
00:23:19,029 --> 00:23:17,360
and um at one point you can actually see

565
00:23:21,830 --> 00:23:19,039
this grey blinking

566
00:23:25,510 --> 00:23:21,840
so it's a typical grey uh being with the

567
00:23:27,990 --> 00:23:25,520
large uh almond-shaped eyes

568
00:23:30,390 --> 00:23:28,000
but what was interesting about that is

569
00:23:33,110 --> 00:23:30,400
another sighting he had

570
00:23:36,149 --> 00:23:33,120
probably a year or two back he'd he'd

571
00:23:38,630 --> 00:23:36,159
actually had footprint you know

572
00:23:40,630 --> 00:23:38,640
thought noises or someone if someone was

573
00:23:43,830 --> 00:23:40,640
running across his roof

574
00:23:45,669 --> 00:23:43,840
uh he went outside and took a photograph

575
00:23:48,870 --> 00:23:45,679
near his truck

576
00:23:51,110 --> 00:23:48,880
and again when he sent the image to me

577
00:23:53,350 --> 00:23:51,120
and i analyzed it um

578
00:23:56,149 --> 00:23:53,360
i was just taking back because you could

579
00:23:59,190 --> 00:23:56,159
see a great being standing behind his

580
00:24:00,789 --> 00:23:59,200
truck popping up from behind the bonnet

581
00:24:04,230 --> 00:24:00,799
um again we

582
00:24:05,669 --> 00:24:04,240
he looking up he introduced me and i had

583
00:24:08,430 --> 00:24:05,679
me on

584
00:24:10,470 --> 00:24:08,440
his latest documentary um

585
00:24:13,909 --> 00:24:10,480
multi-dimensional i think it's available

586
00:24:16,950 --> 00:24:13,919
on amazon prime and itunes etc

587
00:24:19,909 --> 00:24:16,960
um and in that you can see the grey

588
00:24:23,029 --> 00:24:19,919
beings and the sightings and it's just

589
00:24:25,269 --> 00:24:23,039
so many that he's got there for everyone

590
00:24:27,110 --> 00:24:25,279
to see he doesn't hide anything he

591
00:24:29,990 --> 00:24:27,120
doesn't you know he's forced to come in

592
00:24:32,230 --> 00:24:30,000
with all the information he's had

593
00:24:34,070 --> 00:24:32,240
sightings where there was another one

594
00:24:37,269 --> 00:24:34,080
when he was a guest

595
00:24:39,669 --> 00:24:37,279
saying in the isetti ranch uh james

596
00:24:42,789 --> 00:24:39,679
gilliland's ranch

597
00:24:44,870 --> 00:24:42,799
and uh he woke up one morning

598
00:24:46,549 --> 00:24:44,880
at the bottom of his bed there was a

599
00:24:49,269 --> 00:24:46,559
figure standing there and he took a

600
00:24:50,310 --> 00:24:49,279
photograph of her and that's actually in

601
00:24:53,029 --> 00:24:50,320
the book

602
00:24:55,190 --> 00:24:53,039
um and it was actually of a being that

603
00:24:56,950 --> 00:24:55,200
he's had interactions with

604
00:25:00,310 --> 00:24:56,960
uh called uh

605
00:25:02,789 --> 00:25:00,320
i think about guanine her name and she's

606
00:25:05,430 --> 00:25:02,799
very japanese looking you know geisha

607
00:25:08,630 --> 00:25:05,440
girl type of uh dress

608
00:25:12,310 --> 00:25:08,640
um um i got peter to go back and take a

609
00:25:15,029 --> 00:25:12,320
photograph from the exact same position

610
00:25:16,950 --> 00:25:15,039
that he took the original of the being

611
00:25:18,950 --> 00:25:16,960
and i did an overlap you know and you

612
00:25:20,630 --> 00:25:18,960
can actually see in there there's image

613
00:25:22,470 --> 00:25:20,640
one image two and where they're

614
00:25:25,029 --> 00:25:22,480
overlapped and the being

615
00:25:27,350 --> 00:25:25,039
in there you know so

616
00:25:29,190 --> 00:25:27,360
amazing character he's become a really

617
00:25:30,870 --> 00:25:29,200
good friend you know we i've done a lot

618
00:25:33,830 --> 00:25:30,880
with him and i'm sure i'll do a lot more

619
00:25:35,909 --> 00:25:33,840
with him um and get it get over there

620
00:25:38,390 --> 00:25:35,919
and have a look at his stuff yeah and

621
00:25:40,789 --> 00:25:38,400
i'm really glad jason that you mentioned

622
00:25:43,590 --> 00:25:40,799
this particular image of guan ying

623
00:25:46,070 --> 00:25:43,600
because you you analyzed and overlaid

624
00:25:48,310 --> 00:25:46,080
them and added them to your book

625
00:25:51,350 --> 00:25:48,320
and it brings up um

626
00:25:52,310 --> 00:25:51,360
an interesting point uh that a lot of

627
00:25:58,390 --> 00:25:52,320
these

628
00:26:00,630 --> 00:25:58,400
sightings they can capture things

629
00:26:02,710 --> 00:26:00,640
on wavelengths that the human eye can't

630
00:26:04,789 --> 00:26:02,720
see on visible light we find that a lot

631
00:26:06,710 --> 00:26:04,799
in the uinta basin

632
00:26:08,470 --> 00:26:06,720
it's just a different spectrum and i'm

633
00:26:11,190 --> 00:26:08,480
glad that you brought up the

634
00:26:12,310 --> 00:26:11,200
foot the sounds of people walking along

635
00:26:14,310 --> 00:26:12,320
because

636
00:26:16,470 --> 00:26:14,320
the um

637
00:26:19,510 --> 00:26:16,480
the security guards chris marks and

638
00:26:22,310 --> 00:26:19,520
chris bartel who used to be stationed

639
00:26:24,710 --> 00:26:22,320
there at uh bigelow's ranch they

640
00:26:25,990 --> 00:26:24,720
encountered something similar where they

641
00:26:28,070 --> 00:26:26,000
would hear

642
00:26:30,789 --> 00:26:28,080
for lack of a better word footprint

643
00:26:33,110 --> 00:26:30,799
footprint foot sounds through this

644
00:26:35,990 --> 00:26:33,120
um command center that they were at

645
00:26:38,710 --> 00:26:36,000
but um that this area

646
00:26:42,390 --> 00:26:38,720
james gilliland's ranch he seti

647
00:26:43,590 --> 00:26:42,400
it is very similar in my

648
00:26:46,070 --> 00:26:43,600
opinion

649
00:26:49,190 --> 00:26:46,080
in that it does seem to have sort of

650
00:26:50,390 --> 00:26:49,200
this portal slash vortex

651
00:26:52,549 --> 00:26:50,400
uh

652
00:26:55,029 --> 00:26:52,559
phenomena that takes place there

653
00:26:55,750 --> 00:26:55,039
otherworldly reality that interacts with

654
00:26:57,350 --> 00:26:55,760
us

655
00:26:59,909 --> 00:26:57,360
and there's some similarities between

656
00:27:03,029 --> 00:26:59,919
the uintah basin and um james

657
00:27:05,590 --> 00:27:03,039
gilliland's iseti ranch wouldn't you say

658
00:27:08,149 --> 00:27:05,600
yeah most definitely um you know the

659
00:27:09,830 --> 00:27:08,159
with portals and more again

660
00:27:10,950 --> 00:27:09,840
you've got to go back i mean when i

661
00:27:14,230 --> 00:27:10,960
first

662
00:27:15,269 --> 00:27:14,240
got really in deeper into ufology

663
00:27:17,830 --> 00:27:15,279
i would

664
00:27:20,870 --> 00:27:17,840
be being ex-air force and everything i

665
00:27:23,029 --> 00:27:20,880
was nuts and bolts guy you know the the

666
00:27:24,710 --> 00:27:23,039
beings the craft everything had to be

667
00:27:26,630 --> 00:27:24,720
solid had to be

668
00:27:29,350 --> 00:27:26,640
you know visual like a car or an

669
00:27:30,789 --> 00:27:29,360
airplane or you know it had to be there

670
00:27:32,870 --> 00:27:30,799
physically

671
00:27:34,630 --> 00:27:32,880
and over time and the people i've

672
00:27:36,470 --> 00:27:34,640
interviewed and become very good friends

673
00:27:39,029 --> 00:27:36,480
with a lot of people and looked at

674
00:27:41,590 --> 00:27:39,039
different aspects of ufology you know

675
00:27:43,990 --> 00:27:41,600
it's evolved but my way of thinking has

676
00:27:46,549 --> 00:27:44,000
especially evolved because you know

677
00:27:48,149 --> 00:27:46,559
we're talking more multi-dimensional now

678
00:27:50,310 --> 00:27:48,159
than anything else you know we're

679
00:27:51,990 --> 00:27:50,320
talking things that you can't see and

680
00:27:53,830 --> 00:27:52,000
like you just said there but the skin

681
00:27:54,870 --> 00:27:53,840
walk around you know people hearing

682
00:27:57,750 --> 00:27:54,880
things

683
00:27:59,669 --> 00:27:57,760
but the human eye can only see in a very

684
00:28:01,909 --> 00:27:59,679
very small spectrum of light you know

685
00:28:05,190 --> 00:28:01,919
we've talked about the electromagnetic

686
00:28:08,070 --> 00:28:05,200
spectrum which is a huge field you know

687
00:28:10,789 --> 00:28:08,080
the human eye can only see it what we

688
00:28:12,950 --> 00:28:10,799
can physically see you know outside of

689
00:28:15,990 --> 00:28:12,960
that range you're talking about radio

690
00:28:18,389 --> 00:28:16,000
waves and microwaves and infrared uh

691
00:28:19,990 --> 00:28:18,399
ultraviolet and gamma rays everything

692
00:28:20,950 --> 00:28:20,000
related to that

693
00:28:23,430 --> 00:28:20,960
but

694
00:28:25,430 --> 00:28:23,440
we still could only see a you know a

695
00:28:27,430 --> 00:28:25,440
very very small field

696
00:28:29,269 --> 00:28:27,440
um and what you know a lot of people

697
00:28:31,190 --> 00:28:29,279
when they contact me you know when i say

698
00:28:33,190 --> 00:28:31,200
a lot you know i do get

699
00:28:36,710 --> 00:28:33,200
people where they've contacted me with a

700
00:28:39,350 --> 00:28:36,720
an image of uh ufo and they've said i've

701
00:28:41,750 --> 00:28:39,360
taken this image of a landscape with of

702
00:28:43,190 --> 00:28:41,760
my family or friends and it was all

703
00:28:45,750 --> 00:28:43,200
great and everything when i took the

704
00:28:49,350 --> 00:28:45,760
photograph there was nothing there

705
00:28:53,029 --> 00:28:49,360
when i went home and viewed the image

706
00:28:55,590 --> 00:28:53,039
again the z ufo it caught within the the

707
00:28:58,470 --> 00:28:55,600
camera you know what the camera's caught

708
00:29:00,549 --> 00:28:58,480
and it did adamantly they'll say when i

709
00:29:02,789 --> 00:29:00,559
took that photograph there was nothing

710
00:29:04,149 --> 00:29:02,799
there i swear there was nothing else

711
00:29:06,389 --> 00:29:04,159
there

712
00:29:08,870 --> 00:29:06,399
and that just goes to show that the

713
00:29:09,669 --> 00:29:08,880
human eye can't pick up what the camera

714
00:29:11,350 --> 00:29:09,679
can

715
00:29:13,190 --> 00:29:11,360
you know and the camera would be whether

716
00:29:15,510 --> 00:29:13,200
it had been an infrared camera but we

717
00:29:17,590 --> 00:29:15,520
know again if you're talking infrared

718
00:29:20,310 --> 00:29:17,600
camera you're probably talking more on

719
00:29:23,190 --> 00:29:20,320
the tic tac

720
00:29:26,310 --> 00:29:23,200
us military footage that's been released

721
00:29:28,070 --> 00:29:26,320
you know infrared again you can't see

722
00:29:30,549 --> 00:29:28,080
this with your eye but the infrared

723
00:29:32,070 --> 00:29:30,559
account and the same with your camera

724
00:29:35,029 --> 00:29:32,080
depending

725
00:29:36,549 --> 00:29:35,039
settings etc the way things are set up

726
00:29:39,350 --> 00:29:36,559
you're not going to see it but that

727
00:29:41,430 --> 00:29:39,360
craft is actually you know it's cloaked

728
00:29:44,149 --> 00:29:41,440
in a way

729
00:29:47,430 --> 00:29:44,159
absolutely i've i've experienced this

730
00:29:50,070 --> 00:29:47,440
myself and it's super hard to explain

731
00:29:52,630 --> 00:29:50,080
it was a scenario where

732
00:29:54,870 --> 00:29:52,640
i thought i was just taking pictures of

733
00:29:56,789 --> 00:29:54,880
swirling bugs or at least what appeared

734
00:29:58,149 --> 00:29:56,799
to be bugs in a field there in the uinta

735
00:30:00,870 --> 00:29:58,159
basin and

736
00:30:02,950 --> 00:30:00,880
um here and it was it was how can i

737
00:30:04,470 --> 00:30:02,960
explain it it

738
00:30:06,789 --> 00:30:04,480
i was taking the pictures of the

739
00:30:09,909 --> 00:30:06,799
swirling bugs in the field

740
00:30:12,549 --> 00:30:09,919
they were there and as you said as we

741
00:30:13,590 --> 00:30:12,559
were driving off going down the road

742
00:30:15,510 --> 00:30:13,600
i am

743
00:30:16,870 --> 00:30:15,520
looking at the images and there were

744
00:30:20,870 --> 00:30:16,880
three

745
00:30:23,190 --> 00:30:20,880
disc shaped saucers above these swirling

746
00:30:25,110 --> 00:30:23,200
pillars of what appeared to be bugs i

747
00:30:27,110 --> 00:30:25,120
don't know if they were i don't know if

748
00:30:29,669 --> 00:30:27,120
the bugs were going up or down but i

749
00:30:31,510 --> 00:30:29,679
could not see the craft with my naked

750
00:30:32,549 --> 00:30:31,520
eye it was only until we were driving

751
00:30:35,350 --> 00:30:32,559
away

752
00:30:36,549 --> 00:30:35,360
and looking at the images that we saw

753
00:30:38,230 --> 00:30:36,559
three

754
00:30:40,549 --> 00:30:38,240
very obvious

755
00:30:43,190 --> 00:30:40,559
flying saucer-like craft

756
00:30:44,389 --> 00:30:43,200
above these spirals of bugs so

757
00:30:47,029 --> 00:30:44,399
i have

758
00:30:48,389 --> 00:30:47,039
had this happen and it's really hard to

759
00:30:53,990 --> 00:30:48,399
explain

760
00:30:55,909 --> 00:30:54,000
to get your head around because we're

761
00:30:57,830 --> 00:30:55,919
not programmed to think like that you

762
00:30:59,509 --> 00:30:57,840
know where you know if it's like you

763
00:31:01,430 --> 00:30:59,519
said if it's not there physically it

764
00:31:03,669 --> 00:31:01,440
doesn't exist you know when i was that

765
00:31:05,509 --> 00:31:03,679
like that myself you know i was thinking

766
00:31:08,389 --> 00:31:05,519
you know it's got to physically be like

767
00:31:11,909 --> 00:31:08,399
you and me a solid you know being a

768
00:31:15,190 --> 00:31:11,919
solid you know person human humanoid

769
00:31:18,389 --> 00:31:15,200
whatever um but you know a good way to

770
00:31:20,710 --> 00:31:18,399
explain that is um to look at yourself

771
00:31:23,509 --> 00:31:20,720
as if you were a radio

772
00:31:25,590 --> 00:31:23,519
and again you know if people can pick up

773
00:31:27,750 --> 00:31:25,600
different frequencies that the craft

774
00:31:29,590 --> 00:31:27,760
give off or the way that the the

775
00:31:30,549 --> 00:31:29,600
frequency that they

776
00:31:33,909 --> 00:31:30,559
um

777
00:31:36,630 --> 00:31:33,919
actually visualize the craft so if you

778
00:31:39,590 --> 00:31:36,640
think of yourself um as a radio a

779
00:31:41,990 --> 00:31:39,600
standard radio and you're tuning into

780
00:31:44,070 --> 00:31:42,000
your favorite radio station you'll turn

781
00:31:46,230 --> 00:31:44,080
the knob and you'll tune into you know

782
00:31:48,149 --> 00:31:46,240
radio one or whatever you've got what

783
00:31:50,230 --> 00:31:48,159
you want to listen to

784
00:31:51,669 --> 00:31:50,240
but within that range

785
00:31:53,590 --> 00:31:51,679
there are certain

786
00:31:56,070 --> 00:31:53,600
probably thousands of other radio

787
00:31:57,190 --> 00:31:56,080
stations all broadcasting on the same

788
00:31:59,430 --> 00:31:57,200
airwaves

789
00:32:01,750 --> 00:31:59,440
and everything like that

790
00:32:04,549 --> 00:32:01,760
you're the radio you're tuning into that

791
00:32:06,070 --> 00:32:04,559
actual frequency of your radio station

792
00:32:09,430 --> 00:32:06,080
that you're listening to and then you

793
00:32:10,310 --> 00:32:09,440
can see or hear what that is the same

794
00:32:13,110 --> 00:32:10,320
thing

795
00:32:16,149 --> 00:32:13,120
it really applies to ufos you know if

796
00:32:17,430 --> 00:32:16,159
you're in that frequency and you can

797
00:32:19,269 --> 00:32:17,440
actually

798
00:32:21,750 --> 00:32:19,279
get yourself in the frequency of that

799
00:32:23,909 --> 00:32:21,760
ufo and that's why you see it and other

800
00:32:25,750 --> 00:32:23,919
people can't see it you know and that's

801
00:32:28,070 --> 00:32:25,760
another thing i've wrote about i think i

802
00:32:30,549 --> 00:32:28,080
wrote about that in the last book about

803
00:32:32,149 --> 00:32:30,559
musicians the way um

804
00:32:34,149 --> 00:32:32,159
they they're

805
00:32:36,789 --> 00:32:34,159
probably you know the way they're tuned

806
00:32:39,669 --> 00:32:36,799
you know the way the brains are tuned

807
00:32:40,950 --> 00:32:39,679
not everybody is musical i know i'm not

808
00:32:42,630 --> 00:32:40,960
um

809
00:32:43,990 --> 00:32:42,640
but you know got famous people that have

810
00:32:47,269 --> 00:32:44,000
come forward like you know robbie

811
00:32:50,230 --> 00:32:47,279
williams and you know um kim wilde you

812
00:32:52,070 --> 00:32:50,240
know uh david bowie yeah right through

813
00:32:54,870 --> 00:32:52,080
the spectrum of all these different

814
00:32:57,590 --> 00:32:54,880
musicians are on a different frequency

815
00:32:59,669 --> 00:32:57,600
they can read music you know etc you

816
00:33:02,070 --> 00:32:59,679
know maybe they're more susceptible of

817
00:33:05,269 --> 00:33:02,080
actually seeing um the craft as they

818
00:33:08,710 --> 00:33:05,279
come through those frequencies

819
00:33:12,149 --> 00:33:08,720
very much so it seems as if um they're

820
00:33:14,549 --> 00:33:12,159
able to tune and artistically into

821
00:33:15,350 --> 00:33:14,559
things that are just beyond our spectrum

822
00:33:17,190 --> 00:33:15,360
and

823
00:33:19,750 --> 00:33:17,200
kind of leading into my next question

824
00:33:21,590 --> 00:33:19,760
which is the extraterrestrial reverse

825
00:33:23,269 --> 00:33:21,600
engineering question

826
00:33:26,549 --> 00:33:23,279
i wanted to bring up something that you

827
00:33:29,430 --> 00:33:26,559
do cover in your book mr dan willis he's

828
00:33:33,029 --> 00:33:29,440
ex-u.s navy and

829
00:33:35,509 --> 00:33:33,039
he's a top secret military witness that

830
00:33:37,990 --> 00:33:35,519
testified in washington dc

831
00:33:40,950 --> 00:33:38,000
i wanted to get into what your thoughts

832
00:33:42,789 --> 00:33:40,960
were about extraterrestrial

833
00:33:45,669 --> 00:33:42,799
reverse engineering

834
00:33:48,070 --> 00:33:45,679
and why it's hidden and how long these

835
00:33:50,470 --> 00:33:48,080
technologies have been hidden from let's

836
00:33:52,710 --> 00:33:50,480
just say the lay person the common the

837
00:33:54,870 --> 00:33:52,720
common individual or citizen

838
00:33:56,870 --> 00:33:54,880
um they they take i think a lot of these

839
00:33:59,990 --> 00:33:56,880
technologies for granted that may have

840
00:34:02,950 --> 00:34:00,000
very well come from black projects

841
00:34:05,190 --> 00:34:02,960
yeah well you know anything like that is

842
00:34:06,470 --> 00:34:05,200
extraterrestrial is going to be so far

843
00:34:09,750 --> 00:34:06,480
advanced

844
00:34:11,669 --> 00:34:09,760
in technology the military are always

845
00:34:14,069 --> 00:34:11,679
going to want to get their hands on it

846
00:34:14,950 --> 00:34:14,079
but if they want to weaponize everything

847
00:34:16,790 --> 00:34:14,960
you know

848
00:34:19,829 --> 00:34:16,800
that that's just the way they think

849
00:34:22,550 --> 00:34:19,839
that's you know that is the military in

850
00:34:25,190 --> 00:34:22,560
a nutshell and they always they probably

851
00:34:27,270 --> 00:34:25,200
think on the factor of well if we don't

852
00:34:29,109 --> 00:34:27,280
have it you know russia will have it or

853
00:34:30,950 --> 00:34:29,119
china will have it or somebody else so

854
00:34:33,349 --> 00:34:30,960
we've got to get it first

855
00:34:35,589 --> 00:34:33,359
and they're obviously looking

856
00:34:39,349 --> 00:34:35,599
to back re-engineer

857
00:34:40,790 --> 00:34:39,359
craft ufos or you know technology

858
00:34:43,349 --> 00:34:40,800
and you know there's a lot of famous

859
00:34:45,349 --> 00:34:43,359
cases on famous people like dan

860
00:34:48,629 --> 00:34:45,359
and again you've got the likes of bob

861
00:34:51,349 --> 00:34:48,639
lazar who actually you know worked on

862
00:34:54,710 --> 00:34:51,359
retrieved uh

863
00:34:57,750 --> 00:34:54,720
craft and things like that so

864
00:34:59,030 --> 00:34:57,760
yeah it definitely goes on and and again

865
00:35:02,069 --> 00:34:59,040
there's a lot of

866
00:35:03,190 --> 00:35:02,079
technology that is out now that is

867
00:35:06,870 --> 00:35:03,200
probably

868
00:35:09,829 --> 00:35:06,880
to come from

869
00:35:11,270 --> 00:35:09,839
uh retrieved downed craft you know like

870
00:35:13,670 --> 00:35:11,280
the

871
00:35:15,829 --> 00:35:13,680
f-17 stealth fighter you know things

872
00:35:17,829 --> 00:35:15,839
like that and you know the blue the

873
00:35:21,589 --> 00:35:17,839
black bird sorry you know

874
00:35:24,390 --> 00:35:21,599
again a lot triangular shapecraft scene

875
00:35:27,190 --> 00:35:24,400
but you know they are probably um black

876
00:35:29,589 --> 00:35:27,200
projects that do exist but they've been

877
00:35:31,270 --> 00:35:29,599
kept under the radar for such a long

878
00:35:34,790 --> 00:35:31,280
time

879
00:35:37,670 --> 00:35:34,800
it is amazing and you know the

880
00:35:39,910 --> 00:35:37,680
testimony of these witnesses is it's

881
00:35:41,589 --> 00:35:39,920
mind-boggling and some of them have even

882
00:35:43,670 --> 00:35:41,599
worked for nasa

883
00:35:45,670 --> 00:35:43,680
one of my favorite that you include in

884
00:35:47,109 --> 00:35:45,680
the book is donna hair

885
00:35:50,710 --> 00:35:47,119
um she

886
00:35:54,470 --> 00:35:50,720
has worked for a contractor at nasa and

887
00:35:56,230 --> 00:35:54,480
has years of experience and she had uh

888
00:35:58,870 --> 00:35:56,240
well this is one that

889
00:36:01,270 --> 00:35:58,880
i i would like to sort of get into

890
00:36:02,950 --> 00:36:01,280
um which is a little more recent case

891
00:36:06,870 --> 00:36:02,960
can you tell our listeners a little bit

892
00:36:08,870 --> 00:36:06,880
about donna's favorite uh ufo case um

893
00:36:10,790 --> 00:36:08,880
and why you included that in the book

894
00:36:12,790 --> 00:36:10,800
it's pretty mesmerizing

895
00:36:15,829 --> 00:36:12,800
yeah well like i said donna you know

896
00:36:18,950 --> 00:36:15,839
very experienced lady um

897
00:36:21,990 --> 00:36:18,960
she worked for nasa um and probably i

898
00:36:24,790 --> 00:36:22,000
think her part of their job was to um

899
00:36:27,270 --> 00:36:24,800
cover up buildings and structures on on

900
00:36:28,790 --> 00:36:27,280
the moon and in places where we we

901
00:36:30,470 --> 00:36:28,800
couldn't see and people are actually

902
00:36:32,950 --> 00:36:30,480
finding out today

903
00:36:35,910 --> 00:36:32,960
um but you know she obviously got pulled

904
00:36:37,670 --> 00:36:35,920
into ufology probably via that as well

905
00:36:39,829 --> 00:36:37,680
but then you know she's had incidents

906
00:36:42,950 --> 00:36:39,839
that happened to her where she's you

907
00:36:45,430 --> 00:36:42,960
know saw disc shaped objects and you

908
00:36:48,470 --> 00:36:45,440
know a lot of strange things happen to

909
00:36:49,990 --> 00:36:48,480
her we know marks on a car etc i mean i

910
00:36:52,710 --> 00:36:50,000
don't want to give too much away because

911
00:36:54,950 --> 00:36:52,720
you know in the book it goes into really

912
00:36:56,150 --> 00:36:54,960
really high detail

913
00:36:58,310 --> 00:36:56,160
but um

914
00:37:00,550 --> 00:36:58,320
yeah she's certainly up there of a high

915
00:37:02,710 --> 00:37:00,560
caliber person that you know you know

916
00:37:04,470 --> 00:37:02,720
and you know good honor you know she

917
00:37:05,589 --> 00:37:04,480
came forward with the

918
00:37:09,589 --> 00:37:05,599
the

919
00:37:11,430 --> 00:37:09,599
pulled air in

920
00:37:13,910 --> 00:37:11,440
and you know if you actually go in it's

921
00:37:17,030 --> 00:37:13,920
slightly different to most others you

922
00:37:20,230 --> 00:37:17,040
know it goes into the detail like i said

923
00:37:23,270 --> 00:37:20,240
of a hurricane ike it was part of a

924
00:37:25,990 --> 00:37:23,280
sighting and things which is told to you

925
00:37:28,069 --> 00:37:26,000
know get off the road and earn invoices

926
00:37:30,150 --> 00:37:28,079
tell them not to go this way not do that

927
00:37:32,710 --> 00:37:30,160
you know which again other people

928
00:37:34,150 --> 00:37:32,720
have had you know premonitions or things

929
00:37:36,710 --> 00:37:34,160
that have happened where they've been

930
00:37:38,550 --> 00:37:36,720
told to you know get off the road or not

931
00:37:40,630 --> 00:37:38,560
get on that train or that aircraft

932
00:37:42,230 --> 00:37:40,640
because you know something happened

933
00:37:43,990 --> 00:37:42,240
and you know donna's pretty much up

934
00:37:47,750 --> 00:37:44,000
there with it

935
00:37:50,150 --> 00:37:47,760
yeah there's a ton of cases um i'm also

936
00:37:53,109 --> 00:37:50,160
glad at the ones you picked uh you

937
00:37:55,109 --> 00:37:53,119
included malcolm robinson who's

938
00:37:57,510 --> 00:37:55,119
somebody i respect very much i've had

939
00:38:00,550 --> 00:37:57,520
him on the podcast and he's the founder

940
00:38:04,069 --> 00:38:00,560
of strange phenomena investigations and

941
00:38:05,589 --> 00:38:04,079
i was mesmerized by um his favorite ufo

942
00:38:08,069 --> 00:38:05,599
case because

943
00:38:10,710 --> 00:38:08,079
it's one that i was not familiar with to

944
00:38:12,310 --> 00:38:10,720
be honest and you know the images that

945
00:38:15,349 --> 00:38:12,320
you include

946
00:38:17,589 --> 00:38:15,359
on this these spiky balls and i mean

947
00:38:20,150 --> 00:38:17,599
really wild stuff

948
00:38:22,069 --> 00:38:20,160
um did you do the illustrations yourself

949
00:38:23,430 --> 00:38:22,079
it's pretty incredible

950
00:38:25,750 --> 00:38:23,440
yeah um

951
00:38:28,310 --> 00:38:25,760
through the entire book i i did all the

952
00:38:29,829 --> 00:38:28,320
illustrations myself um

953
00:38:32,310 --> 00:38:29,839
but that's what i actually do as well

954
00:38:35,349 --> 00:38:32,320
you know the graphic side um because i'm

955
00:38:37,430 --> 00:38:35,359
presently working on a graphic novel

956
00:38:40,390 --> 00:38:37,440
that's going to be released next year

957
00:38:43,589 --> 00:38:40,400
with calvin um parker

958
00:38:44,630 --> 00:38:43,599
who is the one of the abductees of

959
00:38:46,470 --> 00:38:44,640
a pair

960
00:38:49,589 --> 00:38:46,480
calvin and charlie hickson for the

961
00:38:51,349 --> 00:38:49,599
pascagoula mississippi ufo encounter in

962
00:38:53,510 --> 00:38:51,359
the early 70s

963
00:38:55,829 --> 00:38:53,520
um and i've been working in close

964
00:38:58,390 --> 00:38:55,839
probably over a year now with calvin you

965
00:38:59,349 --> 00:38:58,400
know and he's real genuine guy

966
00:39:01,510 --> 00:38:59,359
you know

967
00:39:02,790 --> 00:39:01,520
obviously what he had the sighting and

968
00:39:05,349 --> 00:39:02,800
everything

969
00:39:07,430 --> 00:39:05,359
and we've got there's a writer uh martin

970
00:39:09,990 --> 00:39:07,440
powell in the us who's actually doing

971
00:39:12,470 --> 00:39:10,000
the writing he actually normally writes

972
00:39:15,190 --> 00:39:12,480
comics like superman and

973
00:39:17,990 --> 00:39:15,200
spiderman batman that type of thing

974
00:39:21,030 --> 00:39:18,000
and um i've done only graphic

975
00:39:23,670 --> 00:39:21,040
novel illustrations of right way through

976
00:39:26,230 --> 00:39:23,680
his life leading up to the the sight in

977
00:39:28,150 --> 00:39:26,240
itself with calvin and charlie

978
00:39:29,349 --> 00:39:28,160
and then the certainty of the actual

979
00:39:31,430 --> 00:39:29,359
abduction

980
00:39:34,550 --> 00:39:31,440
and then at the aftermath with the

981
00:39:37,270 --> 00:39:34,560
police etc going right the way through

982
00:39:39,349 --> 00:39:37,280
so um yeah i've done pretty much all the

983
00:39:41,510 --> 00:39:39,359
thing but going back to what your

984
00:39:43,430 --> 00:39:41,520
question with malcolm robinson you know

985
00:39:45,030 --> 00:39:43,440
malcolm again is another person i've

986
00:39:47,270 --> 00:39:45,040
looked to

987
00:39:49,990 --> 00:39:47,280
through the years i actually did the

988
00:39:51,589 --> 00:39:50,000
book covers for his last couple of books

989
00:39:53,910 --> 00:39:51,599
and that he's had out because they're

990
00:39:55,030 --> 00:39:53,920
doing a lot of book covers for people

991
00:39:59,030 --> 00:39:55,040
as well

992
00:40:01,349 --> 00:39:59,040
and um it was the detriment woods ufo

993
00:40:03,829 --> 00:40:01,359
which is a famous case over here really

994
00:40:08,390 --> 00:40:03,839
you know in scotland in the uk

995
00:40:10,710 --> 00:40:08,400
and it was um during 1979 november 79 in

996
00:40:13,670 --> 00:40:10,720
livingston central scotland

997
00:40:15,190 --> 00:40:13,680
and it was a forestry worker 61 year old

998
00:40:17,510 --> 00:40:15,200
robert taylor

999
00:40:19,829 --> 00:40:17,520
um and he was walking his dog in his

1000
00:40:21,510 --> 00:40:19,839
woods you know where he was very

1001
00:40:24,550 --> 00:40:21,520
familiar with the woods he knew the

1002
00:40:26,150 --> 00:40:24,560
insides and out and lived there i think

1003
00:40:29,589 --> 00:40:26,160
most of his life

1004
00:40:32,470 --> 00:40:29,599
and he came in contact with a spherical

1005
00:40:33,430 --> 00:40:32,480
um unusual as you can see the image in

1006
00:40:36,950 --> 00:40:33,440
the book

1007
00:40:38,790 --> 00:40:36,960
um ufo it had a strange flange around

1008
00:40:41,430 --> 00:40:38,800
the middle of the craft

1009
00:40:43,270 --> 00:40:41,440
and from this craft it was hovering in

1010
00:40:45,670 --> 00:40:43,280
in a cutting in the woods

1011
00:40:47,349 --> 00:40:45,680
and two smaller objects descended from

1012
00:40:48,950 --> 00:40:47,359
the craft itself

1013
00:40:52,309 --> 00:40:48,960
which did

1014
00:40:54,950 --> 00:40:52,319
described and resembled

1015
00:40:56,630 --> 00:40:54,960
world war ii c mines that's why they

1016
00:40:58,710 --> 00:40:56,640
actually look like

1017
00:41:01,349 --> 00:40:58,720
and they they both attacked him and they

1018
00:41:02,710 --> 00:41:01,359
were making peculiar sucking and popping

1019
00:41:05,349 --> 00:41:02,720
sounds

1020
00:41:07,270 --> 00:41:05,359
um they left indentations in the ground

1021
00:41:09,190 --> 00:41:07,280
you know pretty much

1022
00:41:11,109 --> 00:41:09,200
evidence afterwards that malcolm

1023
00:41:13,910 --> 00:41:11,119
actually recovered

1024
00:41:16,550 --> 00:41:13,920
and um obviously uh

1025
00:41:18,950 --> 00:41:16,560
during the attack um robert taylor's

1026
00:41:21,190 --> 00:41:18,960
trousers were actually torn and shredded

1027
00:41:23,030 --> 00:41:21,200
by these these mine

1028
00:41:25,109 --> 00:41:23,040
type objects

1029
00:41:26,710 --> 00:41:25,119
and malcolm has actually still got the

1030
00:41:29,990 --> 00:41:26,720
actual trousers so

1031
00:41:32,470 --> 00:41:30,000
if you ever see malcolm in in a talk or

1032
00:41:35,510 --> 00:41:32,480
a lecture or somewhere he always takes

1033
00:41:37,349 --> 00:41:35,520
the trousers with him and you know he

1034
00:41:40,230 --> 00:41:37,359
quite happy to let you have a look

1035
00:41:42,550 --> 00:41:40,240
yourself and inspect them you know but

1036
00:41:44,870 --> 00:41:42,560
the thing about this case

1037
00:41:47,990 --> 00:41:44,880
it's a great case to put in the book

1038
00:41:50,150 --> 00:41:48,000
but um this was actually reported to the

1039
00:41:52,230 --> 00:41:50,160
uk police and is still

1040
00:41:55,829 --> 00:41:52,240
filed as an attack

1041
00:41:57,750 --> 00:41:55,839
by um an alien or extraterrestrial

1042
00:41:59,270 --> 00:41:57,760
so you know it still goes in like the

1043
00:42:01,510 --> 00:41:59,280
unexplained

1044
00:42:03,670 --> 00:42:01,520
but um also with this

1045
00:42:06,470 --> 00:42:03,680
i've actually made i do a lot of 3d

1046
00:42:10,309 --> 00:42:06,480
models as well um and i actually made a

1047
00:42:12,470 --> 00:42:10,319
3d model of the actual ufo form welcome

1048
00:42:14,390 --> 00:42:12,480
he's actually got that in his um study

1049
00:42:17,030 --> 00:42:14,400
today

1050
00:42:20,150 --> 00:42:17,040
that is neat the artistic yeah the

1051
00:42:22,150 --> 00:42:20,160
nature of this book and the artwork is

1052
00:42:25,349 --> 00:42:22,160
it's it's just the scale is pretty

1053
00:42:28,069 --> 00:42:25,359
amazing i want to jump to one of my

1054
00:42:28,829 --> 00:42:28,079
favorite ufo cases and it's also one

1055
00:42:31,910 --> 00:42:28,839
that

1056
00:42:34,630 --> 00:42:31,920
uh i believe in the book it's annalise's

1057
00:42:38,390 --> 00:42:34,640
one of her favorite cases which is

1058
00:42:40,309 --> 00:42:38,400
the ufo aerial school mass sighting in

1059
00:42:43,750 --> 00:42:40,319
rua zimbabwe

1060
00:42:47,109 --> 00:42:43,760
i i often i often find that this case

1061
00:42:49,510 --> 00:42:47,119
is sort of hard to

1062
00:42:52,790 --> 00:42:49,520
hard to digest but it's also i mean one

1063
00:42:55,190 --> 00:42:52,800
of the cases that is so difficult not

1064
00:42:58,390 --> 00:42:55,200
only to explain but you can't really

1065
00:43:00,790 --> 00:42:58,400
debunk it because there were so many

1066
00:43:01,750 --> 00:43:00,800
people children actually

1067
00:43:03,910 --> 00:43:01,760
um

1068
00:43:06,550 --> 00:43:03,920
who who it just really gets to me

1069
00:43:09,109 --> 00:43:06,560
because so many children viewed

1070
00:43:10,550 --> 00:43:09,119
the ufo aerial school math sighting in

1071
00:43:14,150 --> 00:43:10,560
zimbabwe

1072
00:43:17,829 --> 00:43:14,160
and um they got within just a few feet

1073
00:43:20,230 --> 00:43:17,839
of some of these um entities didn't they

1074
00:43:22,790 --> 00:43:20,240
yeah you know again it's another you

1075
00:43:24,710 --> 00:43:22,800
know a case that's brought up and it

1076
00:43:27,109 --> 00:43:24,720
intrigued an awful lot of people you

1077
00:43:29,510 --> 00:43:27,119
know and anna's um you know obviously

1078
00:43:31,990 --> 00:43:29,520
wanted to get that out you know i've got

1079
00:43:34,950 --> 00:43:32,000
to know her quite well over going to

1080
00:43:36,470 --> 00:43:34,960
conferences etc and we always meet up

1081
00:43:37,990 --> 00:43:36,480
and catch up when we go to these

1082
00:43:41,190 --> 00:43:38,000
conferences

1083
00:43:43,829 --> 00:43:41,200
and then yeah the zimbabwe site him just

1084
00:43:46,230 --> 00:43:43,839
because there was about 62

1085
00:43:48,390 --> 00:43:46,240
students involved you know who actually

1086
00:43:49,589 --> 00:43:48,400
had this the site and they all saw the

1087
00:43:51,910 --> 00:43:49,599
same thing

1088
00:43:54,390 --> 00:43:51,920
you know it's pretty much um up there

1089
00:43:56,550 --> 00:43:54,400
with the the the sightings themselves

1090
00:43:59,589 --> 00:43:56,560
you know the contact whether it's on the

1091
00:44:02,150 --> 00:43:59,599
c5 you know that type of um

1092
00:44:04,550 --> 00:44:02,160
realm of uh category

1093
00:44:06,950 --> 00:44:04,560
and you know the the two beings were

1094
00:44:09,030 --> 00:44:06,960
interacting with the kids and they had

1095
00:44:10,870 --> 00:44:09,040
you know a lot of things to

1096
00:44:13,670 --> 00:44:10,880
they were putting good thoughts in their

1097
00:44:16,790 --> 00:44:13,680
minds you know and how you know how they

1098
00:44:17,910 --> 00:44:16,800
should be presenting themselves etc

1099
00:44:19,750 --> 00:44:17,920
and um

1100
00:44:21,589 --> 00:44:19,760
obviously it's a case that

1101
00:44:23,270 --> 00:44:21,599
stuck with anna you know through you

1102
00:44:25,270 --> 00:44:23,280
know she's had other

1103
00:44:27,510 --> 00:44:25,280
incidents that happened to herself as

1104
00:44:29,990 --> 00:44:27,520
well you know the the wiltshire ufo

1105
00:44:32,309 --> 00:44:30,000
sighting again another one she put in

1106
00:44:35,030 --> 00:44:32,319
there but again she does mention that

1107
00:44:37,349 --> 00:44:35,040
this um zimbabwe case was won that

1108
00:44:39,510 --> 00:44:37,359
caught her attention

1109
00:44:42,309 --> 00:44:39,520
and the children i mean this is

1110
00:44:44,630 --> 00:44:42,319
something that it they they must have

1111
00:44:47,030 --> 00:44:44,640
been frightened of course and

1112
00:44:49,829 --> 00:44:47,040
it it is something that is difficult

1113
00:44:53,190 --> 00:44:49,839
because it is in a different country and

1114
00:44:55,349 --> 00:44:53,200
difficult to research and

1115
00:44:58,390 --> 00:44:55,359
it does seem as if these entities were

1116
00:45:00,870 --> 00:44:58,400
giving some kind of uh

1117
00:45:02,829 --> 00:45:00,880
message i guess to the school children

1118
00:45:05,750 --> 00:45:02,839
would you say that's an accurate

1119
00:45:08,230 --> 00:45:05,760
description yeah definitely and again

1120
00:45:11,190 --> 00:45:08,240
you can see in the book there's actually

1121
00:45:13,670 --> 00:45:11,200
um illustration drawings of what the

1122
00:45:16,150 --> 00:45:13,680
children you know came up with what they

1123
00:45:17,990 --> 00:45:16,160
actually saw which is pretty much on par

1124
00:45:20,550 --> 00:45:18,000
with each other you know when children

1125
00:45:23,589 --> 00:45:20,560
didn't stray too far apart

1126
00:45:25,270 --> 00:45:23,599
and dr john mack actually was heavily

1127
00:45:26,950 --> 00:45:25,280
involved in this case

1128
00:45:29,990 --> 00:45:26,960
you know give it a lot of grievance and

1129
00:45:33,670 --> 00:45:30,000
things and um you know where he actually

1130
00:45:36,230 --> 00:45:33,680
got indeed and interviewed a lot of the

1131
00:45:40,069 --> 00:45:36,240
teachers you know and the children etc

1132
00:45:42,790 --> 00:45:40,079
so it makes it a very authentic case

1133
00:45:45,349 --> 00:45:42,800
it does and i i love john mack i thought

1134
00:45:47,510 --> 00:45:45,359
that was a great great case

1135
00:45:49,829 --> 00:45:47,520
and moving forward another

1136
00:45:51,910 --> 00:45:49,839
these images are just it's so difficult

1137
00:45:54,230 --> 00:45:51,920
to explain just how

1138
00:45:55,670 --> 00:45:54,240
enhanced you have actually made many of

1139
00:45:56,470 --> 00:45:55,680
these images

1140
00:45:58,630 --> 00:45:56,480
but

1141
00:45:59,829 --> 00:45:58,640
one case that i'd like to

1142
00:46:00,470 --> 00:45:59,839
discuss

1143
00:46:01,349 --> 00:46:00,480
is

1144
00:46:17,190 --> 00:46:01,359
the

1145
00:46:18,309 --> 00:46:17,200
brilliant researcher investigator

1146
00:46:19,190 --> 00:46:18,319
himself

1147
00:46:21,109 --> 00:46:19,200
and

1148
00:46:23,589 --> 00:46:21,119
the case that actually brought him in

1149
00:46:24,870 --> 00:46:23,599
was obviously uh which i'm sure a lot of

1150
00:46:28,309 --> 00:46:24,880
your listeners

1151
00:46:30,390 --> 00:46:28,319
um know of as george udamski and he's

1152
00:46:32,150 --> 00:46:30,400
you know known as the father of alien

1153
00:46:34,470 --> 00:46:32,160
contact really

1154
00:46:38,550 --> 00:46:34,480
um and he was having contact with

1155
00:46:39,750 --> 00:46:38,560
solutions i think it was from um

1156
00:46:42,790 --> 00:46:39,760
you know

1157
00:46:43,829 --> 00:46:42,800
coming over and interacting really uh

1158
00:46:45,990 --> 00:46:43,839
with him

1159
00:46:48,870 --> 00:46:46,000
and again he took lots of photographs

1160
00:46:50,470 --> 00:46:48,880
he'd been people have tried to debunk

1161
00:46:51,910 --> 00:46:50,480
you know going right the way through

1162
00:46:53,750 --> 00:46:51,920
with him you know but you know there's

1163
00:46:55,829 --> 00:46:53,760
an awful lot in there that you can

1164
00:46:58,630 --> 00:46:55,839
actually come i mean i always say to

1165
00:47:01,910 --> 00:46:58,640
people don't always take what we say as

1166
00:47:04,390 --> 00:47:01,920
gospel or anybody in ufology you know

1167
00:47:06,550 --> 00:47:04,400
get out there roll your sleeves up and

1168
00:47:08,069 --> 00:47:06,560
do your own research because

1169
00:47:10,390 --> 00:47:08,079
you know that's what you really need to

1170
00:47:12,630 --> 00:47:10,400
do to you know come across

1171
00:47:14,150 --> 00:47:12,640
what you think is truthful or not

1172
00:47:15,750 --> 00:47:14,160
truthful

1173
00:47:18,790 --> 00:47:15,760
but again with this

1174
00:47:21,750 --> 00:47:18,800
through my uh interaction through it

1175
00:47:24,950 --> 00:47:21,760
through adamski himself you know i'm

1176
00:47:27,270 --> 00:47:24,960
a very distinct type of craft it you

1177
00:47:29,510 --> 00:47:27,280
know everyone he knows this craft when

1178
00:47:32,069 --> 00:47:29,520
they see it you know you can say

1179
00:47:33,510 --> 00:47:32,079
straight away that's the georgia dansky

1180
00:47:36,829 --> 00:47:33,520
uh case

1181
00:47:40,549 --> 00:47:36,839
um but i actually was looking at the

1182
00:47:42,150 --> 00:47:40,559
um it was the near new mexico the

1183
00:47:44,549 --> 00:47:42,160
testing ground

1184
00:47:47,589 --> 00:47:44,559
where they tested the nuclear warheads

1185
00:47:49,589 --> 00:47:47,599
in the very early days really

1186
00:47:51,190 --> 00:47:49,599
and um

1187
00:47:52,710 --> 00:47:51,200
when i actually went in you could

1188
00:47:55,030 --> 00:47:52,720
actually see you know

1189
00:47:57,430 --> 00:47:55,040
there was a nuclear detonation i've

1190
00:47:59,190 --> 00:47:57,440
actually illustrated it within the in

1191
00:48:01,990 --> 00:47:59,200
the book you can see the actual

1192
00:48:05,829 --> 00:48:02,000
photograph and this is within the first

1193
00:48:07,670 --> 00:48:05,839
millisecond of a nuclear detonation

1194
00:48:10,069 --> 00:48:07,680
which is going off and you can see the

1195
00:48:11,910 --> 00:48:10,079
cloud getting bigger you know the burst

1196
00:48:13,750 --> 00:48:11,920
it's a ground burst so it's obviously

1197
00:48:16,710 --> 00:48:13,760
coming out from the ground

1198
00:48:19,430 --> 00:48:16,720
but within it what is strange about this

1199
00:48:21,349 --> 00:48:19,440
image if you look on the ground

1200
00:48:24,309 --> 00:48:21,359
actually within that photograph you

1201
00:48:25,190 --> 00:48:24,319
could see an adamski shaped craft on the

1202
00:48:26,790 --> 00:48:25,200
ground

1203
00:48:27,990 --> 00:48:26,800
which is sat there

1204
00:48:30,150 --> 00:48:28,000
now

1205
00:48:32,630 --> 00:48:30,160
well i would very doubt if it is

1206
00:48:34,790 --> 00:48:32,640
extraterrestrial that that craft was

1207
00:48:36,390 --> 00:48:34,800
damaged through that blast but they were

1208
00:48:38,309 --> 00:48:36,400
there you know something was there for a

1209
00:48:41,349 --> 00:48:38,319
reason and something converted near the

1210
00:48:44,790 --> 00:48:41,359
very distinct shape was there as well

1211
00:48:47,109 --> 00:48:44,800
absolutely and um it's hard not to

1212
00:48:49,990 --> 00:48:47,119
mention the next case which is so well

1213
00:48:51,190 --> 00:48:50,000
known and that is the betty and barney

1214
00:48:53,190 --> 00:48:51,200
hill case

1215
00:48:55,750 --> 00:48:53,200
i don't know where you got some of these

1216
00:48:57,589 --> 00:48:55,760
photographs but i'm very jealous

1217
00:49:00,870 --> 00:48:57,599
uh you have amazing

1218
00:49:02,870 --> 00:49:00,880
photographs of betty and

1219
00:49:06,069 --> 00:49:02,880
recreation

1220
00:49:08,549 --> 00:49:06,079
and um for those listeners that have not

1221
00:49:11,349 --> 00:49:08,559
heard of the betty and barney hill case

1222
00:49:13,910 --> 00:49:11,359
could you give a quick synopsis of why

1223
00:49:15,270 --> 00:49:13,920
that case is so important and just how

1224
00:49:18,309 --> 00:49:15,280
early on

1225
00:49:20,470 --> 00:49:18,319
uh this this hit the media

1226
00:49:22,950 --> 00:49:20,480
uh well it's a famous case because it

1227
00:49:24,790 --> 00:49:22,960
was probably one of the first

1228
00:49:27,510 --> 00:49:24,800
um that people

1229
00:49:30,150 --> 00:49:27,520
you know introduced into ufology it's

1230
00:49:33,829 --> 00:49:30,160
just one of those original cases that is

1231
00:49:34,870 --> 00:49:33,839
brought up you know betty and barney um

1232
00:49:39,750 --> 00:49:34,880
were

1233
00:49:41,349 --> 00:49:39,760
out

1234
00:49:43,109 --> 00:49:41,359
in new hampshire i think it was they

1235
00:49:45,030 --> 00:49:43,119
were traveling home

1236
00:49:47,190 --> 00:49:45,040
and um

1237
00:49:48,710 --> 00:49:47,200
just trying to think of the actual date

1238
00:49:50,950 --> 00:49:48,720
was that

1239
00:49:53,430 --> 00:49:50,960
late 50s i believe let me

1240
00:49:55,589 --> 00:49:53,440
i should know that as well

1241
00:49:58,790 --> 00:49:55,599
yeah i need anybody they were traveling

1242
00:50:01,750 --> 00:49:58,800
home and they basically had came across

1243
00:50:03,510 --> 00:50:01,760
uh a ufo that it followed then the light

1244
00:50:05,829 --> 00:50:03,520
it got bigger you know

1245
00:50:08,950 --> 00:50:05,839
and obviously at one point it was

1246
00:50:12,390 --> 00:50:08,960
directly over their car they got out

1247
00:50:15,589 --> 00:50:12,400
and they they were abducted um you know

1248
00:50:18,230 --> 00:50:15,599
later on they did actually have um

1249
00:50:21,270 --> 00:50:18,240
uh regression you know which actually if

1250
00:50:22,950 --> 00:50:21,280
you can you listen to barney's it's

1251
00:50:25,349 --> 00:50:22,960
quite harrowing actually if you if

1252
00:50:27,589 --> 00:50:25,359
you've listened to it on it's on youtube

1253
00:50:29,829 --> 00:50:27,599
i think you listen to it you know it's

1254
00:50:31,670 --> 00:50:29,839
not not the easiest of listening because

1255
00:50:33,270 --> 00:50:31,680
you know he's very frightened it was a

1256
00:50:35,349 --> 00:50:33,280
very you know

1257
00:50:36,549 --> 00:50:35,359
an ordeal for both of them really you

1258
00:50:37,990 --> 00:50:36,559
know

1259
00:50:40,630 --> 00:50:38,000
and um

1260
00:50:43,190 --> 00:50:40,640
it's just a very famous case and you

1261
00:50:46,630 --> 00:50:43,200
know in relation to this case a lot of

1262
00:50:48,870 --> 00:50:46,640
photographs i got through class uh van

1263
00:50:51,910 --> 00:50:48,880
you know it was a

1264
00:50:52,950 --> 00:50:51,920
um a researcher in switzerland who's in

1265
00:50:55,510 --> 00:50:52,960
the book

1266
00:50:58,549 --> 00:50:55,520
and he actually had um a lot of the

1267
00:51:01,990 --> 00:50:58,559
original photographs of betty and barney

1268
00:51:03,829 --> 00:51:02,000
hill within his archives that i actually

1269
00:51:07,589 --> 00:51:03,839
got so you know got a photograph of

1270
00:51:09,510 --> 00:51:07,599
actually barney uh during 1965 where

1271
00:51:11,990 --> 00:51:09,520
he's actually doing a reconstruction of

1272
00:51:13,750 --> 00:51:12,000
him looking through um binoculars and

1273
00:51:15,109 --> 00:51:13,760
parked up with it within his car

1274
00:51:17,589 --> 00:51:15,119
etcetera

1275
00:51:20,470 --> 00:51:17,599
and again you know

1276
00:51:22,230 --> 00:51:20,480
there was a famous case within it within

1277
00:51:25,270 --> 00:51:22,240
that case of um

1278
00:51:27,430 --> 00:51:25,280
betty where she had the zita reticuli

1279
00:51:29,990 --> 00:51:27,440
starmap you know they

1280
00:51:32,230 --> 00:51:30,000
which she how would she know what it

1281
00:51:33,750 --> 00:51:32,240
looked like you know before scientists

1282
00:51:35,030 --> 00:51:33,760
actually come out and said that it was

1283
00:51:39,510 --> 00:51:35,040
correct

1284
00:51:41,270 --> 00:51:39,520
um but also in relation to this uh case

1285
00:51:45,510 --> 00:51:41,280
you know i had um

1286
00:51:47,990 --> 00:51:45,520
their niece who was um kathleen martin

1287
00:51:50,710 --> 00:51:48,000
and she actually know she's a move from

1288
00:51:53,270 --> 00:51:50,720
research very good in investigator

1289
00:51:55,190 --> 00:51:53,280
herself but she's actually the niece and

1290
00:51:58,309 --> 00:51:55,200
betty and barney hill

1291
00:51:59,670 --> 00:51:58,319
um you know and she heard the account

1292
00:52:01,589 --> 00:51:59,680
firsthand

1293
00:52:04,470 --> 00:52:01,599
you know off often when they were

1294
00:52:06,150 --> 00:52:04,480
speaking with the family etc so again in

1295
00:52:07,990 --> 00:52:06,160
the book you know she's actually put

1296
00:52:09,990 --> 00:52:08,000
that forward which is brilliant because

1297
00:52:12,470 --> 00:52:10,000
you know the things you just don't hear

1298
00:52:14,870 --> 00:52:12,480
about really

1299
00:52:17,510 --> 00:52:14,880
no and it is a case the betty and barney

1300
00:52:19,510 --> 00:52:17,520
hill case is a case that i was wrong it

1301
00:52:21,349 --> 00:52:19,520
was not late 50s i

1302
00:52:23,030 --> 00:52:21,359
as i was looking at your book it has so

1303
00:52:26,549 --> 00:52:23,040
much important information and it

1304
00:52:28,390 --> 00:52:26,559
appears it was 1961 so that goes to show

1305
00:52:31,109 --> 00:52:28,400
how far off i was

1306
00:52:33,589 --> 00:52:31,119
but you bring about such a good point

1307
00:52:34,630 --> 00:52:33,599
about the star map and how this was

1308
00:52:37,829 --> 00:52:34,640
drawn

1309
00:52:40,230 --> 00:52:37,839
just by hand and seems to be accurate

1310
00:52:42,470 --> 00:52:40,240
um pretty fascinating pretty fascinating

1311
00:52:44,069 --> 00:52:42,480
stuff and if anybody does want to listen

1312
00:52:46,950 --> 00:52:44,079
to that youtube

1313
00:52:49,510 --> 00:52:46,960
it's pretty it's it's pretty spooky it's

1314
00:52:51,270 --> 00:52:49,520
pretty spooky and it's in my opinion so

1315
00:52:53,190 --> 00:52:51,280
emotionally charged

1316
00:52:55,910 --> 00:52:53,200
that it is not something someone would

1317
00:52:59,510 --> 00:52:55,920
want out there in the public unless it

1318
00:53:01,510 --> 00:52:59,520
was 100 legitimate um

1319
00:53:04,150 --> 00:53:01,520
another another thing that i really

1320
00:53:06,309 --> 00:53:04,160
liked that you jumped into in your book

1321
00:53:07,109 --> 00:53:06,319
which most people avoid

1322
00:53:09,270 --> 00:53:07,119
is

1323
00:53:12,870 --> 00:53:09,280
the section on stan ho

1324
00:53:16,069 --> 00:53:12,880
and how this can become a lot of these

1325
00:53:17,990 --> 00:53:16,079
ufo cases can become a religious enigma

1326
00:53:19,670 --> 00:53:18,000
this is something that a lot of people

1327
00:53:21,109 --> 00:53:19,680
try to

1328
00:53:22,150 --> 00:53:21,119
not even

1329
00:53:25,109 --> 00:53:22,160
consider

1330
00:53:27,589 --> 00:53:25,119
but um dependent on

1331
00:53:29,990 --> 00:53:27,599
religion and or lack thereof a lot of

1332
00:53:33,670 --> 00:53:30,000
these dimensional beings

1333
00:53:35,829 --> 00:53:33,680
seem to um sometimes mimic if not be

1334
00:53:37,829 --> 00:53:35,839
somewhat similar to

1335
00:53:41,030 --> 00:53:37,839
religious figures

1336
00:53:43,990 --> 00:53:41,040
yeah yeah well it's not just um

1337
00:53:45,910 --> 00:53:44,000
astan said in his you know stan is um

1338
00:53:48,309 --> 00:53:45,920
very well distinguished thought for

1339
00:53:50,630 --> 00:53:48,319
himself chinese origin

1340
00:53:52,870 --> 00:53:50,640
um and again you know he's become a good

1341
00:53:54,790 --> 00:53:52,880
friend again you know to the ufo

1342
00:53:57,589 --> 00:53:54,800
phenomena etc

1343
00:53:59,829 --> 00:53:57,599
um and again he puts forward that yeah

1344
00:54:01,829 --> 00:53:59,839
you know a lot of the people will look

1345
00:54:03,589 --> 00:54:01,839
up to these beings

1346
00:54:06,549 --> 00:54:03,599
and put them under the realms of you

1347
00:54:09,190 --> 00:54:06,559
know gods and you know idols you know

1348
00:54:10,549 --> 00:54:09,200
that they would actually look up to you

1349
00:54:12,549 --> 00:54:10,559
know because again

1350
00:54:14,790 --> 00:54:12,559
people can't explain

1351
00:54:15,589 --> 00:54:14,800
how they're high tech and what they can

1352
00:54:19,990 --> 00:54:15,599
do

1353
00:54:21,589 --> 00:54:20,000
assuming that they are you know a higher

1354
00:54:22,950 --> 00:54:21,599
god etc

1355
00:54:24,549 --> 00:54:22,960
but then you know

1356
00:54:28,230 --> 00:54:24,559
there are um

1357
00:54:30,309 --> 00:54:28,240
plenty of other cases and a few to

1358
00:54:32,710 --> 00:54:30,319
which i can think about now are where

1359
00:54:34,230 --> 00:54:32,720
people have upset um

1360
00:54:36,150 --> 00:54:34,240
when they've been in their bedroom

1361
00:54:37,750 --> 00:54:36,160
before they were abducted or you know

1362
00:54:40,710 --> 00:54:37,760
they've had an interaction or an

1363
00:54:42,950 --> 00:54:40,720
experience that they've had um

1364
00:54:45,349 --> 00:54:42,960
a character that has actually walked

1365
00:54:47,910 --> 00:54:45,359
into the room so one person said they

1366
00:54:50,230 --> 00:54:47,920
had an elephant that came into the room

1367
00:54:52,789 --> 00:54:50,240
somebody else had said they saw um a

1368
00:54:55,270 --> 00:54:52,799
giant um

1369
00:54:58,309 --> 00:54:55,280
cartoon character that walked into the

1370
00:55:00,950 --> 00:54:58,319
room and again this is probably you know

1371
00:55:04,230 --> 00:55:00,960
put into their minds or psyche through

1372
00:55:06,230 --> 00:55:04,240
the the et's to put that person at ease

1373
00:55:08,470 --> 00:55:06,240
you know if they'd probably come up with

1374
00:55:11,670 --> 00:55:08,480
that memory or something that that

1375
00:55:12,470 --> 00:55:11,680
person is you know into or likes

1376
00:55:14,069 --> 00:55:12,480
um

1377
00:55:16,069 --> 00:55:14,079
and they're thinking

1378
00:55:18,870 --> 00:55:16,079
that will put that person at ease rather

1379
00:55:21,510 --> 00:55:18,880
than see you know some kind of strange

1380
00:55:23,190 --> 00:55:21,520
being coming in the room to to do

1381
00:55:25,430 --> 00:55:23,200
an interaction with a you know an

1382
00:55:26,390 --> 00:55:25,440
abduction case or whatever

1383
00:55:28,230 --> 00:55:26,400
so

1384
00:55:31,030 --> 00:55:28,240
you know and again you say with the

1385
00:55:32,870 --> 00:55:31,040
people a lot of people see owls outside

1386
00:55:34,789 --> 00:55:32,880
of the window where they're looking in

1387
00:55:37,030 --> 00:55:34,799
they this agency now you know when owl

1388
00:55:38,390 --> 00:55:37,040
is very if you actually think about it

1389
00:55:40,390 --> 00:55:38,400
you know it's very

1390
00:55:43,510 --> 00:55:40,400
eaty looking

1391
00:55:45,589 --> 00:55:43,520
bird because of the large eyes etc you

1392
00:55:49,829 --> 00:55:45,599
know again is that a thought that's been

1393
00:55:52,470 --> 00:55:49,839
put forward to put that person at ease

1394
00:55:54,470 --> 00:55:52,480
that is very interesting and i've known

1395
00:55:57,109 --> 00:55:54,480
people who have had experiences with

1396
00:55:59,990 --> 00:55:57,119
owls which they thought at the time were

1397
00:56:01,270 --> 00:56:00,000
just owls and only later on did they

1398
00:56:02,390 --> 00:56:01,280
begin to

1399
00:56:05,349 --> 00:56:02,400
realize

1400
00:56:07,990 --> 00:56:05,359
when they track their experience that

1401
00:56:09,430 --> 00:56:08,000
it may have not been exactly as they

1402
00:56:11,589 --> 00:56:09,440
remember it

1403
00:56:13,990 --> 00:56:11,599
and have you found that in the mix that

1404
00:56:16,069 --> 00:56:14,000
sometimes there seem to be somewhat like

1405
00:56:17,510 --> 00:56:16,079
screen memories involved with ufo

1406
00:56:19,670 --> 00:56:17,520
sightings

1407
00:56:20,710 --> 00:56:19,680
yeah you know people have been missing

1408
00:56:22,950 --> 00:56:20,720
time and

1409
00:56:25,750 --> 00:56:22,960
flashbacks and things like that i mean

1410
00:56:27,510 --> 00:56:25,760
i've had a missing time incident in my

1411
00:56:31,349 --> 00:56:27,520
life you know and there was one that

1412
00:56:33,430 --> 00:56:31,359
wasn't that actually long ago um a

1413
00:56:35,270 --> 00:56:33,440
long story short i've got two dogs i've

1414
00:56:36,549 --> 00:56:35,280
walked them every day

1415
00:56:38,150 --> 00:56:36,559
and

1416
00:56:40,470 --> 00:56:38,160
sometimes i'll give them a longer walk

1417
00:56:43,510 --> 00:56:40,480
or shorter walk depending on the time

1418
00:56:45,589 --> 00:56:43,520
and this day i left the house to walk up

1419
00:56:47,109 --> 00:56:45,599
a reservoir that's at the back of the

1420
00:56:48,390 --> 00:56:47,119
house where i live

1421
00:56:50,870 --> 00:56:48,400
and um

1422
00:56:53,430 --> 00:56:50,880
it was a lovely day etc walking the dogs

1423
00:56:54,630 --> 00:56:53,440
they were on leads in front of me

1424
00:56:56,549 --> 00:56:54,640
and

1425
00:57:00,309 --> 00:56:56,559
as i was walking i could hear in the

1426
00:57:03,270 --> 00:57:00,319
distance the distinct sound of a chinook

1427
00:57:05,910 --> 00:57:03,280
helicopter which is the the twin rotor

1428
00:57:08,710 --> 00:57:05,920
military helicopter if people don't know

1429
00:57:10,390 --> 00:57:08,720
what that type of aircraft is um and i

1430
00:57:13,510 --> 00:57:10,400
know that because i used to work on them

1431
00:57:15,190 --> 00:57:13,520
so i mean the sound is very distinct and

1432
00:57:17,030 --> 00:57:15,200
i thought well great you know it sounds

1433
00:57:18,950 --> 00:57:17,040
like it's coming my way i'll get my

1434
00:57:21,750 --> 00:57:18,960
camera out you know with video and i'll

1435
00:57:23,750 --> 00:57:21,760
i'll take a photo a video of it as it

1436
00:57:26,789 --> 00:57:23,760
flies over you know

1437
00:57:28,309 --> 00:57:26,799
to be on my way um which i did i can

1438
00:57:30,789 --> 00:57:28,319
remember taking

1439
00:57:34,630 --> 00:57:30,799
a video of this chinook and it flew

1440
00:57:36,630 --> 00:57:34,640
really low right over my head virtually

1441
00:57:38,470 --> 00:57:36,640
on the top of this reservoir

1442
00:57:40,950 --> 00:57:38,480
and then it went off and then i carried

1443
00:57:43,750 --> 00:57:40,960
on walking the docks anyway long story

1444
00:57:46,630 --> 00:57:43,760
short i got home with the dogs and that

1445
00:57:48,789 --> 00:57:46,640
normally about 20 25 minutes this walk

1446
00:57:51,270 --> 00:57:48,799
would be it was a quick walk and it was

1447
00:57:53,910 --> 00:57:51,280
about an hour and a half later

1448
00:57:56,309 --> 00:57:53,920
and i got home my wife from my younger

1449
00:57:58,470 --> 00:57:56,319
lab said to me where have you been and i

1450
00:58:00,549 --> 00:57:58,480
said well i've been out walking the dock

1451
00:58:02,549 --> 00:58:00,559
and they said well you've been gone over

1452
00:58:05,910 --> 00:58:02,559
an hour and a half you just doing a you

1453
00:58:08,549 --> 00:58:05,920
know 20 minute walk i said well

1454
00:58:10,470 --> 00:58:08,559
it was still 12 in my mind it was still

1455
00:58:12,309 --> 00:58:10,480
20 25 minutes

1456
00:58:14,710 --> 00:58:12,319
a long long story short we thought

1457
00:58:17,190 --> 00:58:14,720
nothing of it had carried on in another

1458
00:58:18,470 --> 00:58:17,200
high strange and a sort of event i

1459
00:58:21,109 --> 00:58:18,480
thought oh i'll have a look at that

1460
00:58:24,069 --> 00:58:21,119
video that i actually videoed

1461
00:58:27,589 --> 00:58:24,079
which i've still got on my phone today

1462
00:58:30,309 --> 00:58:27,599
and um when i viewed the video back

1463
00:58:33,589 --> 00:58:30,319
you could see all you could see

1464
00:58:35,589 --> 00:58:33,599
was a b film in my feet

1465
00:58:37,030 --> 00:58:35,599
and you could hear the chuck flying off

1466
00:58:38,230 --> 00:58:37,040
in the distance

1467
00:58:40,230 --> 00:58:38,240
and that was it

1468
00:58:43,510 --> 00:58:40,240
and i just thought it was one of those

1469
00:58:46,230 --> 00:58:43,520
really strange you know incidents that

1470
00:58:49,349 --> 00:58:46,240
that happened and again you know my

1471
00:58:52,150 --> 00:58:49,359
family members my father's ex-military

1472
00:58:53,829 --> 00:58:52,160
um and you know very proud

1473
00:58:57,910 --> 00:58:53,839
fella himself

1474
00:59:00,549 --> 00:58:57,920
and yeah one day in liverpool um

1475
00:59:02,870 --> 00:59:00,559
when he was a young boy he had um an

1476
00:59:04,470 --> 00:59:02,880
interaction with a man in black

1477
00:59:06,870 --> 00:59:04,480
that actually walked through the front

1478
00:59:09,270 --> 00:59:06,880
door of the house where he was living

1479
00:59:12,150 --> 00:59:09,280
he was playing in the in the hallway and

1480
00:59:13,990 --> 00:59:12,160
the living room was during the 1950s

1481
00:59:16,470 --> 00:59:14,000
and this was the time before everyone

1482
00:59:18,630 --> 00:59:16,480
before everybody had tv so people just

1483
00:59:20,870 --> 00:59:18,640
had radios they were listening to the

1484
00:59:23,430 --> 00:59:20,880
grandparents were in the front room

1485
00:59:25,109 --> 00:59:23,440
listening to whatever and he was running

1486
00:59:27,270 --> 00:59:25,119
backwards and forwards from the living

1487
00:59:29,430 --> 00:59:27,280
room into the hallway

1488
00:59:31,109 --> 00:59:29,440
and as he ran back into the hallway at

1489
00:59:32,710 --> 00:59:31,119
the end of the

1490
00:59:34,470 --> 00:59:32,720
the hallway down the bottom was the

1491
00:59:36,150 --> 00:59:34,480
front door and then that was locked up

1492
00:59:37,349 --> 00:59:36,160
for the night had bolts on it and

1493
00:59:39,910 --> 00:59:37,359
everything

1494
00:59:41,829 --> 00:59:39,920
and he said this figure manifested

1495
00:59:43,030 --> 00:59:41,839
itself through the front door of dark

1496
00:59:45,430 --> 00:59:43,040
figure

1497
00:59:47,670 --> 00:59:45,440
and he didn't really know what man in

1498
00:59:49,829 --> 00:59:47,680
black was and things like that until

1499
00:59:52,069 --> 00:59:49,839
just one day i was having a beer with

1500
00:59:53,910 --> 00:59:52,079
him and he said oh i had an interaction

1501
00:59:55,910 --> 00:59:53,920
with a man in black

1502
00:59:58,950 --> 00:59:55,920
i thought oh right and when i actually

1503
01:00:01,510 --> 00:59:58,960
did an illustration of what he told me

1504
01:00:03,990 --> 01:00:01,520
which is in the second book the ufology

1505
01:00:04,710 --> 01:00:04,000
umbrella i've actually done without you

1506
01:00:07,270 --> 01:00:04,720
know

1507
01:00:07,990 --> 01:00:07,280
an illustration of what he explained to

1508
01:00:10,150 --> 01:00:08,000
me

1509
01:00:11,910 --> 01:00:10,160
um when i showed him the image

1510
01:00:14,549 --> 01:00:11,920
afterwards he sort of went cold and

1511
01:00:15,910 --> 01:00:14,559
quiet and said yeah that was exactly

1512
01:00:18,549 --> 01:00:15,920
what i saw

1513
01:00:21,750 --> 01:00:18,559
where this dark figure came through you

1514
01:00:23,670 --> 01:00:21,760
know and beckoned him to go upstairs and

1515
01:00:25,270 --> 01:00:23,680
he you know obviously didn't he didn't

1516
01:00:26,470 --> 01:00:25,280
about turn and run back in the front

1517
01:00:28,789 --> 01:00:26,480
room

1518
01:00:31,510 --> 01:00:28,799
and that is also an amazing book i'm

1519
01:00:33,270 --> 01:00:31,520
looking at it on my shelf right now um

1520
01:00:37,109 --> 01:00:33,280
it is uh

1521
01:00:39,430 --> 01:00:37,119
very very similar but different it's i i

1522
01:00:40,630 --> 01:00:39,440
highly recommend listeners get all of

1523
01:00:43,829 --> 01:00:40,640
your books

1524
01:00:46,309 --> 01:00:43,839
but obviously this latest book um get

1525
01:00:48,789 --> 01:00:46,319
coming back to it something that really

1526
01:00:51,030 --> 01:00:48,799
stood out to me and someone i respect is

1527
01:00:53,910 --> 01:00:51,040
ann andrews um

1528
01:00:55,670 --> 01:00:53,920
and she brings up and it is well

1529
01:00:59,030 --> 01:00:55,680
documented in your book

1530
01:01:01,270 --> 01:00:59,040
shadow beings and in particular a very

1531
01:01:02,390 --> 01:01:01,280
strange memory

1532
01:01:08,630 --> 01:01:02,400
of

1533
01:01:11,349 --> 01:01:08,640
up standing on its hind legs except

1534
01:01:14,549 --> 01:01:11,359
it seemed to take human form except its

1535
01:01:17,030 --> 01:01:14,559
head was still clearly that of a wolf

1536
01:01:18,309 --> 01:01:17,040
this this obviously stood out to me

1537
01:01:20,230 --> 01:01:18,319
because

1538
01:01:22,150 --> 01:01:20,240
of some of the

1539
01:01:25,589 --> 01:01:22,160
common sightings here in the uintah

1540
01:01:29,109 --> 01:01:25,599
basin of utah but also it goes to show

1541
01:01:30,710 --> 01:01:29,119
that a lot of times these entities can

1542
01:01:33,670 --> 01:01:30,720
sort of uh

1543
01:01:36,230 --> 01:01:33,680
manifest themselves in different

1544
01:01:39,750 --> 01:01:36,240
forms isn't that true

1545
01:01:41,589 --> 01:01:39,760
yeah again yeah the the the actual case

1546
01:01:43,589 --> 01:01:41,599
that dan

1547
01:01:45,829 --> 01:01:43,599
and andrews put forward in the bottom

1548
01:01:49,109 --> 01:01:45,839
and i got to know anne again

1549
01:01:51,990 --> 01:01:49,119
to ufology i first um

1550
01:01:53,670 --> 01:01:52,000
that came across and at my first ever

1551
01:01:55,990 --> 01:01:53,680
ufo conference

1552
01:01:57,589 --> 01:01:56,000
i think it was um a mash

1553
01:02:01,670 --> 01:01:57,599
conference which was i think it was

1554
01:02:05,349 --> 01:02:03,829
summer b i think you know in nottingham

1555
01:02:07,349 --> 01:02:05,359
in the uk

1556
01:02:09,589 --> 01:02:07,359
and um she was actually one of the

1557
01:02:11,510 --> 01:02:09,599
speakers out there but

1558
01:02:14,549 --> 01:02:11,520
anne's introduction

1559
01:02:17,270 --> 01:02:14,559
in ufology really goes back to her own

1560
01:02:21,029 --> 01:02:17,280
experiences she's had through her life

1561
01:02:22,950 --> 01:02:21,039
um shadow beings and you know strange

1562
01:02:25,829 --> 01:02:22,960
things that have gone on but then their

1563
01:02:27,829 --> 01:02:25,839
son jason who was

1564
01:02:29,589 --> 01:02:27,839
you know he he was actually

1565
01:02:31,670 --> 01:02:29,599
taken and again if you ever get the

1566
01:02:34,789 --> 01:02:31,680
chance to go and look up and their

1567
01:02:37,750 --> 01:02:34,799
stories and listen to what happened with

1568
01:02:40,470 --> 01:02:37,760
you know jason and his family members

1569
01:02:43,349 --> 01:02:40,480
it's very very it's very on par with

1570
01:02:45,670 --> 01:02:43,359
them skin walk around that type of thing

1571
01:02:48,150 --> 01:02:45,680
strange things that have happened

1572
01:02:50,470 --> 01:02:48,160
you know sightings of beings and craft

1573
01:02:52,069 --> 01:02:50,480
and all that you know and jason

1574
01:02:54,069 --> 01:02:52,079
basically you know

1575
01:02:56,870 --> 01:02:54,079
great guy again

1576
01:02:59,510 --> 01:02:56,880
he doesn't he's not involved in ufology

1577
01:03:01,190 --> 01:02:59,520
anymore because um you know somebody

1578
01:03:03,029 --> 01:03:01,200
tried to run him off the road and you

1579
01:03:04,470 --> 01:03:03,039
know he had a lot bad that things would

1580
01:03:06,630 --> 01:03:04,480
happen so

1581
01:03:09,589 --> 01:03:06,640
and but and it carried on and i

1582
01:03:10,950 --> 01:03:09,599
approached dan as a friend and said you

1583
01:03:13,430 --> 01:03:10,960
know would you like to contribute

1584
01:03:15,670 --> 01:03:13,440
towards a book and she came forward with

1585
01:03:17,349 --> 01:03:15,680
the beings you know in the shadows which

1586
01:03:19,349 --> 01:03:17,359
is obviously

1587
01:03:22,309 --> 01:03:19,359
you know one of the actual incidents

1588
01:03:24,309 --> 01:03:22,319
that happened was this shortly a dark

1589
01:03:25,430 --> 01:03:24,319
being come into her bedroom when she was

1590
01:03:26,470 --> 01:03:25,440
a young

1591
01:03:28,549 --> 01:03:26,480
child

1592
01:03:31,990 --> 01:03:28,559
and stood on its back legs and you know

1593
01:03:34,630 --> 01:03:32,000
manifested itself into a wolf like

1594
01:03:37,990 --> 01:03:34,640
um you know being as she described it he

1595
01:03:39,990 --> 01:03:38,000
looked pretty much like the the wolf in

1596
01:03:41,910 --> 01:03:40,000
harry potter that type of thing where he

1597
01:03:43,349 --> 01:03:41,920
stands on his back legs

1598
01:03:45,750 --> 01:03:43,359
and

1599
01:03:48,069 --> 01:03:45,760
again you know i would i would

1600
01:03:49,990 --> 01:03:48,079
seriously get in here and try and read

1601
01:03:52,950 --> 01:03:50,000
up on her case you know because it's

1602
01:03:55,589 --> 01:03:52,960
fascinating really is fascinating you

1603
01:03:58,549 --> 01:03:55,599
really pulled it off with this book and

1604
01:03:59,750 --> 01:03:58,559
um lastly as we wrap up i'd like to

1605
01:04:03,589 --> 01:03:59,760
quickly

1606
01:04:05,750 --> 01:04:03,599
jump uh to gary mckinnon the

1607
01:04:08,069 --> 01:04:05,760
the uh the hacker

1608
01:04:08,950 --> 01:04:08,079
and could you tell listeners a bit about

1609
01:04:12,549 --> 01:04:08,960
that

1610
01:04:14,710 --> 01:04:12,559
and he was a system administrator

1611
01:04:16,870 --> 01:04:14,720
and there was a poorly secured nasa

1612
01:04:19,990 --> 01:04:16,880
computer apparently

1613
01:04:21,910 --> 01:04:20,000
and it revealed i apparently an already

1614
01:04:23,829 --> 01:04:21,920
existing space force

1615
01:04:26,069 --> 01:04:23,839
complete with specially trained crews

1616
01:04:28,069 --> 01:04:26,079
and personnel can we quickly touch on

1617
01:04:31,029 --> 01:04:28,079
that as we wrap up

1618
01:04:33,349 --> 01:04:31,039
yeah well i mean gary mckinnon

1619
01:04:35,430 --> 01:04:33,359
is well known again you know you have to

1620
01:04:38,549 --> 01:04:35,440
look him up you know he's that he goes

1621
01:04:40,390 --> 01:04:38,559
down as the uk nasa hacker you know he

1622
01:04:41,190 --> 01:04:40,400
got into a very

1623
01:04:44,630 --> 01:04:41,200
um

1624
01:04:47,029 --> 01:04:44,640
poorly protected nasa system

1625
01:04:47,990 --> 01:04:47,039
this is in the early days you know he's

1626
01:04:50,470 --> 01:04:48,000
quite

1627
01:04:51,910 --> 01:04:50,480
expertise within computers so he knew

1628
01:04:54,150 --> 01:04:51,920
how to get in

1629
01:04:57,430 --> 01:04:54,160
passwords and you know minus of

1630
01:05:00,150 --> 01:04:57,440
passwords he found it very easy anyway

1631
01:05:01,750 --> 01:05:00,160
and basically he stumbled across

1632
01:05:04,309 --> 01:05:01,760
the space force

1633
01:05:07,430 --> 01:05:04,319
um you know the fleets of aircraft you

1634
01:05:09,430 --> 01:05:07,440
know and craft probably that have gone

1635
01:05:12,150 --> 01:05:09,440
down over the years have been ufo

1636
01:05:14,870 --> 01:05:12,160
sightings and people have said you know

1637
01:05:15,990 --> 01:05:14,880
again if if they've actually seen these

1638
01:05:17,029 --> 01:05:16,000
craft

1639
01:05:21,430 --> 01:05:17,039
they

1640
01:05:22,710 --> 01:05:21,440
with the us government or whoever is in

1641
01:05:24,069 --> 01:05:22,720
charge of the

1642
01:05:26,309 --> 01:05:24,079
space force

1643
01:05:28,390 --> 01:05:26,319
um because it's the perfect cover story

1644
01:05:30,150 --> 01:05:28,400
for them if that somebody says they've

1645
01:05:32,230 --> 01:05:30,160
seen a ufo when they've seen one of

1646
01:05:35,510 --> 01:05:32,240
their craft you know they don't have to

1647
01:05:37,349 --> 01:05:35,520
deny or you know explain anything

1648
01:05:38,789 --> 01:05:37,359
to the public so

1649
01:05:40,710 --> 01:05:38,799
you know gary

1650
01:05:42,950 --> 01:05:40,720
he got he got himself into an awful lot

1651
01:05:46,309 --> 01:05:42,960
of trouble and he they tried to exercise

1652
01:05:48,390 --> 01:05:46,319
him back over to america the the uk

1653
01:05:49,270 --> 01:05:48,400
government stepped in and stopped it and

1654
01:05:52,150 --> 01:05:49,280
everything

1655
01:05:55,270 --> 01:05:52,160
and you know he downloaded you know uh

1656
01:05:58,470 --> 01:05:55,280
manifests of um pilots and

1657
01:06:01,750 --> 01:05:58,480
you know pilots who pilot craft and

1658
01:06:02,630 --> 01:06:01,760
there was names of craft and you know

1659
01:06:05,670 --> 01:06:02,640
he

1660
01:06:08,309 --> 01:06:05,680
really goes down quite historic really

1661
01:06:10,309 --> 01:06:08,319
you know for what he did

1662
01:06:12,309 --> 01:06:10,319
um people might look at it different and

1663
01:06:14,630 --> 01:06:12,319
saying he was hacking and doing that

1664
01:06:16,870 --> 01:06:14,640
side but if it wasn't for gary doing

1665
01:06:20,470 --> 01:06:16,880
what he did we would probably wouldn't

1666
01:06:23,349 --> 01:06:20,480
know of the space force you know as much

1667
01:06:26,309 --> 01:06:23,359
detail what he brought forward

1668
01:06:29,670 --> 01:06:26,319
so true so true such an interesting case

1669
01:06:31,029 --> 01:06:29,680
and such an interesting book 371 pages

1670
01:06:32,710 --> 01:06:31,039
of just gold

1671
01:06:34,789 --> 01:06:32,720
can you tell listeners where they can

1672
01:06:37,349 --> 01:06:34,799
get your books and also tell them about

1673
01:06:39,029 --> 01:06:37,359
ufo only and other projects you have

1674
01:06:41,589 --> 01:06:39,039
going on

1675
01:06:44,789 --> 01:06:41,599
yeah and well the the three books yeah

1676
01:06:47,190 --> 01:06:44,799
ufo photo the the umbrella ufology

1677
01:06:49,670 --> 01:06:47,200
umbrella and the latest book ufo

1678
01:06:52,230 --> 01:06:49,680
encounters up close and personal you can

1679
01:06:54,630 --> 01:06:52,240
get all of those on amazon or through

1680
01:06:56,870 --> 01:06:54,640
philip mantle flying this press

1681
01:06:58,630 --> 01:06:56,880
um you know

1682
01:07:00,870 --> 01:06:58,640
you can get anything through there you

1683
01:07:02,789 --> 01:07:00,880
can also see and there's a couple of

1684
01:07:04,309 --> 01:07:02,799
documentaries i've done with the

1685
01:07:06,630 --> 01:07:04,319
multi-dimensional

1686
01:07:09,349 --> 01:07:06,640
with um peter slattery and james

1687
01:07:11,270 --> 01:07:09,359
gilliland and mary rodwell

1688
01:07:15,029 --> 01:07:11,280
and then there was the latest one i did

1689
01:07:17,750 --> 01:07:15,039
in the uk with the other fellow uh

1690
01:07:21,029 --> 01:07:17,760
british ufologists uh you know philip

1691
01:07:24,150 --> 01:07:21,039
mantle and malcolm robinson etc uh call

1692
01:07:26,230 --> 01:07:24,160
the pentagon files and we talk about the

1693
01:07:28,630 --> 01:07:26,240
tic tac ufos and everything else

1694
01:07:31,750 --> 01:07:28,640
involved and you know talk about just

1695
01:07:34,870 --> 01:07:31,760
ufology in general and then i've also

1696
01:07:36,870 --> 01:07:34,880
got the facebook page uf only

1697
01:07:39,029 --> 01:07:36,880
uh there's big following on there

1698
01:07:40,470 --> 01:07:39,039
there's always lots of detail on there

1699
01:07:42,870 --> 01:07:40,480
for craft or

1700
01:07:44,950 --> 01:07:42,880
images analysis etcetera

1701
01:07:46,950 --> 01:07:44,960
um and then there's also a youtube

1702
01:07:50,150 --> 01:07:46,960
channel where you can see it wherever

1703
01:07:52,789 --> 01:07:50,160
analyzed a lot of images and footage

1704
01:07:56,150 --> 01:07:52,799
under the same name uf only

1705
01:07:59,270 --> 01:07:56,160
absolutely amazing mr gleaves and i i

1706
01:08:01,029 --> 01:07:59,280
will be sure to uh

1707
01:08:03,109 --> 01:08:01,039
try to send you some more images because

1708
01:08:03,829 --> 01:08:03,119
you've done such a great job in the past

1709
01:08:05,910 --> 01:08:03,839
and

1710
01:08:08,150 --> 01:08:05,920
we've had some recent ones here at space

1711
01:08:09,829 --> 01:08:08,160
wolf research that have really kind of

1712
01:08:12,069 --> 01:08:09,839
uh we've been scratching our heads over

1713
01:08:13,829 --> 01:08:12,079
so i will send those over can't thank

1714
01:08:16,309 --> 01:08:13,839
you enough for coming on the podcast

1715
01:08:18,070 --> 01:08:16,319
again and especially for being so

1716
01:08:21,110 --> 01:08:18,080
cordial and understanding giving up

1717
01:08:23,590 --> 01:08:21,120
given our technical difficulties you are

1718
01:08:26,390 --> 01:08:23,600
so so understanding and i'm very

1719
01:08:28,630 --> 01:08:26,400
appreciative of that thank you so much

1720
01:08:31,030 --> 01:08:28,640
thank you it's been a pleasure and i

1721
01:08:33,430 --> 01:08:31,040
always really enjoy these shows because

1722
01:08:36,110 --> 01:08:33,440
we can just talk about ufos and things

1723
01:08:38,470 --> 01:08:36,120
that we're really interested in

1724
01:08:41,829 --> 01:08:38,480
absolutely amazing

1725
01:08:44,630 --> 01:08:41,839
jason gleaves researcher investigator

1726
01:08:46,309 --> 01:08:44,640
and author extraordinaire definitely

1727
01:08:49,590 --> 01:08:46,319
pick up his books

1728
01:08:53,269 --> 01:08:49,600
and look into ufo only it is on social

1729
01:08:56,550 --> 01:08:53,279
media and his work clearing up images of

1730
01:08:58,630 --> 01:08:56,560
uaps and ufos is next level

1731
01:09:00,870 --> 01:08:58,640
we have dealt with him and highly

1732
01:09:03,269 --> 01:09:00,880
recommend him to anyone that

1733
01:09:05,749 --> 01:09:03,279
needs this sort of work done

1734
01:09:07,430 --> 01:09:05,759
very happy about how this podcast went

1735
01:09:09,269 --> 01:09:07,440
and all of the research and

1736
01:09:13,269 --> 01:09:09,279
investigation that went into his latest

1737
01:09:17,189 --> 01:09:13,279
book we could have gone on and on 371

1738
01:09:19,910 --> 01:09:17,199
pages of pure ufo gold in my opinion

1739
01:09:22,309 --> 01:09:19,920
involving many different researchers

1740
01:09:24,470 --> 01:09:22,319
investigators and experiencers

1741
01:09:26,789 --> 01:09:24,480
definitely pick up a copy

1742
01:09:28,229 --> 01:09:26,799
of his books and

1743
01:09:29,430 --> 01:09:28,239
also

1744
01:09:30,390 --> 01:09:29,440
pick up

1745
01:09:33,349 --> 01:09:30,400
more

1746
01:09:36,070 --> 01:09:33,359
content from hero paranormal we're on

1747
01:09:38,390 --> 01:09:36,080
patreon at hero paranormal or go to

1748
01:09:40,709 --> 01:09:38,400
heroparanormal.com

1749
01:09:42,789 --> 01:09:40,719
on the podbean app there's a ton of

1750
01:09:45,749 --> 01:09:42,799
content behind the paywall and your

1751
01:09:48,470 --> 01:09:45,759
support helps us bring more

1752
01:09:50,550 --> 01:09:48,480
podcasts to you for you to enjoy

1753
01:09:52,950 --> 01:09:50,560
until next time keep your eyes to the

1754
01:10:02,280 --> 01:09:52,960
skies feet on the ground but don't

1755
01:10:02,290 --> 01:10:10,950
[Music]

1756
01:10:17,750 --> 01:10:13,830
come blast off in my time machine third

1757
01:10:28,310 --> 01:10:17,760
eye feeling like an evil